Bonanza crash caught on video

I'm voting for overweight.
After what appears to be a relativly long roll, you can see the plane mushing
and stalling trying to climb.

I saw the video on a computer without sound, so I don't know if they said how
many people were on board, but this plane, even with no flaps, should climb out
just fine.



What about watching this type of video - is it useful for our awareness as
pilots? I tend to think it is, but that's just a personal opinion. Where I grew
up, the State Police used to do an auto safety presentation every year to
students who were about to get their driving licenses. They would show gory,
shocking films of accident scenes, hoping to impress the young, future drivers.
They don't do that any more, but I don't know if this is because they feel it
was not effective, or because they are concerned it is no longer socially
acceptable. . .

"Dan Luke" wrote:

What's horrifying is how everything looks fine and then suddenly goes all
wrong.

I disagree Dan. When he lifts off you can see the end of the runway
near. Obviously he saw that as well. The initial wing rocking may
have been just after leaving ground effect at lower than optimal
airspeed.

It would be interesting to know the wind speed/direction. I believe
that he took off on runway 31.

Ron Lee

What's horrifying is how everything looks fine and then suddenly goes all
wrong.

I disagree Dan. When he lifts off you can see the end of the runway
near. Obviously he saw that as well. The initial wing rocking may
have been just after leaving ground effect at lower than optimal
airspeed.

It would be interesting to know the wind speed/direction. I believe
that he took off on runway 31.

I just watched the video again, and noticed something that seems odd
-- there was no fire.

A rescuer commented that at least one survivor was splashed with gas,
so fuel exhaustion isn't (apparently) the cause -- but I wonder why
there was no fire, with all the violent twisting/shearing of metal and
the hot engine?

Good fortune, I suppose. Similar videos always seem to end in smoke
and flame...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Ron Lee" wrote:

What's horrifying is how everything looks fine and then suddenly goes all
wrong.

I disagree Dan. When he lifts off you can see the end of the runway
near. Obviously he saw that as well. The initial wing rocking may
have been just after leaving ground effect at lower than optimal
airspeed.

That's just it: the speed looks fine and the airplane gives no appearance of
struggling into the air. The wing rocking and mushing come on suddenly,
almost as if the engine lost power or there was wind shear. There's something
strange about this accident.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ups.com...
On Sep 1, 5:38 am, "Blueskies" wrote:

Looks like the max temp yesterday was 98°f, pressure was 29.8 or so, winds were out of the south or south-south west.

There are no reported winds at that airport and I've never, ever seen
the winds there be the same as in the valley. If you are looking at
temps and wind directions from the sacramento area (which is what you
get on weather.com, etc) you can throw those in the round file. We're
always a bit cooler than Sac and the winds could never be the same
because there is a foothill range between the two and a 1000 foot
elevation difference. You guys on this board are as bad as the people
on the news with wild &*($ guesses that are useless.


There are no guesses about the weather in my post...the data sources are quoted and you cut them out. The closest
weather was from Mather and you assumed the rest.

Also looks like they were taking off 13, so they had a right cross wind.
(http://www.airnav.com/airport/O61)

No, it was 31.

As I said, it looked like 13, thanks for the clarification...

Dale wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:


I Agree. This one just might turn out to be an engine issue suffered
right at or after rotation. No telling without the analysis that will
follow the crash, but it very well might not have been a density
altitude problem or an over gross problem at all.
I agree with you that waiting on the facts is a prudent move with these
things.
Dudley Henriques

I'm wondering if perhaps this guy did an intersection takeoff.
Making a judgment from a video is difficult without correlated data but
the run looked normal to me right through rotation. The aircraft seemed
to have required acceleration and I couldn't see or hear anything wrong.
Rotation seemed normal without excessive nose attitude or rate.
The slight wobbling and sudden decrease in rate of climb seemed visually
at least what would be expected with a sudden change in engine power.
These of course are nothing but experienced observations based on not
enough data to reach any kind of assumption or conclusion.
It's difficult to determine if the takeoff was initiated from an
intersection but the rate of acceleration and the length of the run
didn't indicate that to me.
The aircraft was absolutely in stall mush when it when in and there was
little change in angle of attack during that period before impact.
I have the feeling that had the sound track been recorded from a closer
vantage point further down the runway closer to the rotation point more
useful data would be available to a knowledgeable eye witness.



--
Dudley Henriques

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:25:47 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote:

Which is why I'm surprised to hear of a high-horsepower plane like the
Bonanza that DOESN'T use flaps for takeoff. When I saw the video, I
thought for sure that was the reason for the crash.

Normal takeoff for the Malibu (dual-turbo 350hp Lycoming) is no flap.

RST Engineering wrote:
It was Caltrans, the *******s. THey issue the airport permit, you know.

Jim

I always wondered about those ugly red/white airplane skewers at KGOO.
The first time I rolled out on final, they were a bit unnerving to see
as it seems the can reach out and grab you.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

The aircraft was absolutely in stall mush when it when in and there was
little change in angle of attack during that period before impact.
I have the feeling that had the sound track been recorded from a closer
vantage point further down the runway closer to the rotation point more
useful data would be available to a knowledgeable eye witness.

Yes. Something happened at about the end of the runway that made the airplane
start to wobble and mush, where a moment before it appeared to be flying ok.
The more I look at it, the more I think the power failed.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

"Really-Old-Fart" wrote in message
.. .
In rec.aviation.piloting, on Fri 31 Aug 2007 11:26:15p, "Maxwell"
wrote:

Looks like he could have increased his odds a bit, if he had used the
rest of the runway, and/or stayed in ground effect a bit longer.

Well, considering the outcome, he couldn't have really decreased his odds.
Oh well, hindsight is 20/20, right?

Perhaps. Kind of depends on what caused the crash.

Unless he suffered some kind of reduction in power upon take-off, he had 10
seconds or so to remain in ground effect and keep building speed. If his
problem was indeed runway length, density altitude, gross weight and/or
downwind related - it could well have saved him.