Bonanza crash caught on video

"Dudley Henriques" wrote

The fairing doors on the P51 are about as huge as the spinnaker on a 12
meter racing yacht. :-))

Now Dudley, I must have told you a million times, to not exaggerate!
g
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote

The fairing doors on the P51 are about as huge as the spinnaker on a 12
meter racing yacht. :-))

Now Dudley, I must have told you a million times, to not exaggerate!
g
Well.......maybe as big as the sail on a Sunfish then :-)))

--
Dudley Henriques

("Jack Allison" wrote)
It's been a long time...two years maybe...since I've flown into KGOO.


KGOO ....funny name. g


Paul-Mont

"Dudley Henriques" wrote

Well.......maybe as big as the sail on a Sunfish then :-)))

That's better! g
--
Jim in NC

top of a Douglas fir, eh? And not that we couldn't do a little tree
climbing and mount the light to the top of the tree so the light would grow
along with the tree? Naaaaaah.

Items attached to tree tops don't grow upwards. They stay where they
are while the tree grows up around it. Those little branches at the
top of the tree will stay right where they are for the life of the
tree.

On Sep 2, 6:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
cjcampbell wrote:
On Aug 31, 6:44 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was at Cameron Park
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "Cameron Park Plane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.

Yes, but as others said, he did manage to struggle into the air. He
never got out of ground effect. He saw the trees coming and tried to
pull it up and stalled. Probably over weight. The airport security
fence finished the job when he hit it and the plane flipped over. Ten
knots lower stall speed, no fence, no tailwind, cooler temperature, no
trees, less load: any one of those factors would have broken the chain
of events leading to the crash.

Maybe, maybe not. You have no idea what caused the crash so saying that
you know the solution is simply dumb.

Matt

Frankly, most of us are not quite as ignorant as you seem to think we
are.

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:18:03 -0600, Newps wrote:



Roger (K8RI) wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:54:03 -0600, Newps wrote:



Roger (K8RI) wrote:



"I think" meaning I don't know for sure, that flaps slow the
acceleration enough that nothing is gained in distance by using them.

It reduces ground roll by 20%.


It might get me into ground effect a bit earlier, but the end result
would take more distance to clear thatl 50 foot obstical.

That is not the case. You clear 50 feet sooner with flaps than without.

I quote from the "American Bonanza Society Pilot Proficiency Training
manual:

Short Field Takeoffs:

1: Align the aircraft with the runway, Apply full power prior to brake
release. "FLAPS SHOULD BE UP" (Emphasis mine) unless otherwise stated
in the POH for the specific aircraft.

2. Accelerate with pitch attitude near neutral to Vx.

3. Rotate positively at Vx and stay at Vx until the obstacle is
cleared.

4. As noted elsewhere and in this manual the drag of the extended gear
at Vx has little or no effect on climb performance. Accordingly, on
climbouts from short field takeoffs The landing gear should not be
retracted until obstacles and terrain are cleared. Then raise the gear
and accelerate to Vy.


A lot sooner, 33% in fact. A Bonanza with a 520 at 2800 pounds,

Not according to the manual.

5000 feet and 32 degrees gets these results: Flaps 20...Lift off in 876
feet and thru 50 feet in 1200 feet. No flaps...Lift off in 944 feet and
thru 50 feet in 1600 feet. There will be minor differences among the
various Bonanza models but all will perform basically the same.

Cameron Park is my home airport. I own and fly a Beech Travel Air
B95. My work office is located a few hundred feet off the end of 31.
I was in my office at the time of the crash but did not see it. Here
are some of my observations fom watching the video, I used a satellite
image of the airport via Google Earth which has a handy distance
measuring tool which I used to determin key distances along the
takeoff profile. First, 31 has a displaced threshold that is
approximatly 1500 feet from the begining of the runway. The video
starts showing the plane already moving at pretty good speed crossing
over this threshold. The camera appears to be located near the fuel
island slightly less than midfield at about 1900 feet down the
runway. The plane crosses this point and seems to be picking up speed
at a good rate. The engine also sounds strong. By freezing the video
at this point it appears that all 3 passengers and pilot are sitting
in the four seets furthest toward the front of the aircraft. (I
obviously can't tell this for sure). I slowly forwarded the video
from this point on and counted five white stripes from the point of
takeoff to the end of the runway. Using the google satellite image,
this measures out to a lift off point of about 3000 feet down the
runway or about 1000 feet from the end of the runway. The distance
from the end of the runway to the crash site is about 900 feet. Also,
I can confirm the conditions at the time of the crash. The
temperature was just above 100, and the winds were light (5 or less).
I do not know the direction of the wind. My calculations show a DA of
about 4200 feet which seems to fall in line with other's
calculations. I do recall hearing several other aircraft depart using
31 within a half hour time frame before the accident.

Roger (K8RI) wrote:




A lot sooner, 33% in fact. A Bonanza with a 520 at 2800 pounds,


Not according to the manual.

Your manual doesn't say anything about flaps for any takeoff. Nor does
it say anything about any surface othr than a hard surface runway.
Other publications do. I'm sure you're familiar with Eckalbar's book.
The answers and more math than you can handle will spell it all out in
there. Even with out going to the book it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to tell a takeoff with flaps is much shorter.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
This all reminds me of that 182 on Youtube with the medical patient in
Africa that appears to be overweight.

I lost a friend, along with five of his relatives, when he tried to
depart Pullyaup, WA in an overweight Cherokee 6. His crash
description was exactly like the Youtube 182 and this Bo.

Also, if you look at the video (as other folks have mentioned), his liftoff
was almost near the end of the runway (looks a little past the 1000 ft
marker). If you assume that he did not do an intersection departure, he must
have been rolling for about 3,000 feet by the time he rotated.

Marco