Approaching Deep Stall

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:06:01 -0700, cjcampbell
wrote:

On Sep 5, 11:29 am, Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:
For a while I have been wondering why there seem to be no
airplanes with a low wing and a high tail.

Duchess and Seminole come to mind.

doesn't have to be a "high tail". ever heard of the Cheyenne II's
stability augmentation system? didn't really do a whole lot for
controllability, primarily made it feel like there was airflow over
the elevator when there wasn't much...

one has to be exploring the edges of the envelope, but other PA31's
are able to place the tail into "bad" air also.

TC

An early model of the experimental Velocity developed this problem
during testing - ended up pancaking into a canal, iirc. Pilot
suffered back injuries but survived.

wrote:
doesn't have to be a "high tail". ever heard of the Cheyenne II's
stability augmentation system?



I thought it was because of the tip tanks it had to have it.

John

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:48:38 -0400, The Visitor
wrote:



wrote:
doesn't have to be a "high tail". ever heard of the Cheyenne II's
stability augmentation system?



I thought it was because of the tip tanks it had to have it.

John

nope, they've all got tip tanks. AFAIK bigger engines led to a steeper
deck angle on climb out and dirty air over the tail.

the I's don't have enuff poop to get the nose high enuff, and the XL
has a different/longer fuselage.

when the nose gets high enuff on a II, an actuator winds up the
elevator downspring so the yoke doesn't "flop". keeps the quivering
protoplasm behind the yoke from crapping him/herself when the air
leaves the elevator.

have had the same sensation in a straight 31 with a Colemill
conversion. i kinda liked it...

TC

On Sep 6, 12:37 am, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:06:01 -0700, cjcampbell

wrote:
On Sep 5, 11:29 am, Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:
For a while I have been wondering why there seem to be no
airplanes with a low wing and a high tail.

Duchess and Seminole come to mind.

doesn't have to be a "high tail". ever heard of the Cheyenne II's
stability augmentation system? didn't really do a whole lot for
controllability, primarily made it feel like there was airflow over
the elevator when there wasn't much...

one has to be exploring the edges of the envelope, but other PA31's
are able to place the tail into "bad" air also.


This is the sort of Zodiac-like high tail I was thinking of:

http://www.icfn.net/bluesky/air1/N70...I%20(OFEK).jpg

and this is not:

http://www.dc3d.co.nz/tutorials/OFP/...enne.lllSm.GIF

Both are what I's call a "high" tail in the sense that the horizontal
stabilizer flies at a higher altitude than does the main wing, and
hence both would seem to have the same vulnerability to
deep stall.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
On Sep 6, 12:37 am, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:06:01 -0700, cjcampbell

wrote:
On Sep 5, 11:29 am, Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:
For a while I have been wondering why there seem to be no
airplanes with a low wing and a high tail.

Duchess and Seminole come to mind.

doesn't have to be a "high tail". ever heard of the Cheyenne II's
stability augmentation system? didn't really do a whole lot for
controllability, primarily made it feel like there was airflow over
the elevator when there wasn't much...

one has to be exploring the edges of the envelope, but other PA31's
are able to place the tail into "bad" air also.


This is the sort of Zodiac-like high tail I was thinking of:

http://www.icfn.net/bluesky/air1/N70...%20PIPER%20PA-
31T%20CHEYENNE%20II%20(OFEK).jpg

and this is not:

http://www.dc3d.co.nz/tutorials/OFP/...enne.lllSm.GIF

Both are what I's call a "high" tail in the sense that the horizontal
stabilizer flies at a higher altitude than does the main wing, and
hence both would seem to have the same vulnerability to
deep stall.

FF

If that is your definition of "high" tail you don't have to leave the Zenith
line to find a low wing that fits that description take a close look at the
601XL. Not as high as the 701 but the bottom of the horz. stabilizer is
higher than the top of the wing.