CNN article on problems in Air Travel, as seen by FAA

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:26:38 +0000, John Kulp wrote:

Have heard of them and even use them at times. Unless you are IFR,
they are NOT needed at a vast majority of airports in the United States.
Most airports in the U.S. do not have a control tower, and many of those
who do do not have a 24 hour control tower. No local or ground
controllers. No ground control.

These aren't the airports that have much traffic or are the problem.
Those are major airports, which do have ATC.

That's rather the point. This idea of congestion is an airport issue,
and it is limited to those airports where GA has little-to-no presence.
There are a few possible exceptions to this (ie. TEB), but it's also
worth remembering that TEB exists as a reliever precisely because of the
congestion at EWR etc.

- Andrew

John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:

(John Kulp) wrote:

"The guys who fly around in private jets" make up about 40
percent of the air traffic in the Northeast, he said. "One would
think it's not just airlines that would be asked to reduce
capacity," he said.

Is this number correct?

Yes, and they don't pay anywhere near their fair share of fees
either.

Well that's certainly a matter for debate...

The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine without
ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are commercial
hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch of CEO
flights.


Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground control,
or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground control,
or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

Exactly.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

On Sep 13, 9:29 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:
[snip]
The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine without
ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are commercial
hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch of CEO
flights.

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground control,
or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

An airport 'round these parts just went controlled because of the
number of GA jets that requested it. It was over the objections of
many of the actual more frequent users (VFR mostly). I suspect
that the portion of the GA traffic being discussed (business jets)
wouldn't "get along just fine" without some large amount of ATC.

me wrote:
On Sep 13, 9:29 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:
[snip]
The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine without
ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are
commercial hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch
of CEO flights.

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground
control, or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

An airport 'round these parts just went controlled because of the
number of GA jets that requested it. It was over the objections of
many of the actual more frequent users (VFR mostly). I suspect
that the portion of the GA traffic being discussed (business jets)
wouldn't "get along just fine" without some large amount of ATC.


That doesn't change the fact that airline traffic needs the ATC system WAY
more than the GA traffic does. What airport are you talking about?

On Sep 13, 2:09 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
me wrote:
On Sep 13, 9:29 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:
[snip]
The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine without
ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are
commercial hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch
of CEO flights.

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground
control, or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

An airport 'round these parts just went controlled because of the
number of GA jets that requested it. It was over the objections of
many of the actual more frequent users (VFR mostly). I suspect
that the portion of the GA traffic being discussed (business jets)
wouldn't "get along just fine" without some large amount of ATC.

That doesn't change the fact that airline traffic needs the ATC system WAY
more than the GA traffic does.

Of the traffic being discussed, I'd suspect that is not true. Not
sure
how to prove it however. For GA in general, I'd suspect the vast
majority
would PREFER no ATC.

What airport are you talking about

DED

me wrote:
On Sep 13, 2:09 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
me wrote:
On Sep 13, 9:29 am, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:
[snip]
The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine
without ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are
commercial hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch
of CEO flights.

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground
control, or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

An airport 'round these parts just went controlled because of the
number of GA jets that requested it. It was over the objections of
many of the actual more frequent users (VFR mostly). I suspect
that the portion of the GA traffic being discussed (business jets)
wouldn't "get along just fine" without some large amount of ATC.

That doesn't change the fact that airline traffic needs the ATC
system WAY more than the GA traffic does.

Of the traffic being discussed, I'd suspect that is not true. Not
sure
how to prove it however. For GA in general, I'd suspect the vast
majority
would PREFER no ATC.

What airport are you talking about

DED


The current AFD shows that Daytona handles approach and departure and
there's no tower freq listed
http://www.naco.faa.gov/pdfs/se_56_30AUG2007.pdf and it looks like it seldom
averages more than 2 IFR operations per hour
http://flightaware.com/analysis/grap...t?airport=KDED.

But all that aside. Do you really think that the incremental cost to the ATC
system for the services provided to a Cessna Citation III are really over
$24/hour? If not then GA is paying it's fair share because the ATC system is
primarily there because of the airlines. Others use it because it is there.