CNN article on problems in Air Travel, as seen by FAA

On Sep 13, 2:09 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
me wrote:
On Sep 13, 9:29 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:
[snip]
The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine without
ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are
commercial hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch
of CEO flights.

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground
control, or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

An airport 'round these parts just went controlled because of the
number of GA jets that requested it. It was over the objections of
many of the actual more frequent users (VFR mostly). I suspect
that the portion of the GA traffic being discussed (business jets)
wouldn't "get along just fine" without some large amount of ATC.

That doesn't change the fact that airline traffic needs the ATC system WAY
more than the GA traffic does.

Of the traffic being discussed, I'd suspect that is not true. Not
sure
how to prove it however. For GA in general, I'd suspect the vast
majority
would PREFER no ATC.

What airport are you talking about

DED

me wrote:
On Sep 13, 2:09 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
me wrote:
On Sep 13, 9:29 am, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:10 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:
[snip]
The vast majority of gen av traffic would operate just fine
without ATC at all. With the exception of a few airports that are
commercial hubs, and a couple like Teterboro that attract a bunch
of CEO flights.

Apparently, you have never heard of approach control, ground
control, or departure control.

Apparently, you have not heard of uncontrolled.

An airport 'round these parts just went controlled because of the
number of GA jets that requested it. It was over the objections of
many of the actual more frequent users (VFR mostly). I suspect
that the portion of the GA traffic being discussed (business jets)
wouldn't "get along just fine" without some large amount of ATC.

That doesn't change the fact that airline traffic needs the ATC
system WAY more than the GA traffic does.

Of the traffic being discussed, I'd suspect that is not true. Not
sure
how to prove it however. For GA in general, I'd suspect the vast
majority
would PREFER no ATC.

What airport are you talking about

DED


The current AFD shows that Daytona handles approach and departure and
there's no tower freq listed
http://www.naco.faa.gov/pdfs/se_56_30AUG2007.pdf and it looks like it seldom
averages more than 2 IFR operations per hour
http://flightaware.com/analysis/grap...t?airport=KDED.

But all that aside. Do you really think that the incremental cost to the ATC
system for the services provided to a Cessna Citation III are really over
$24/hour? If not then GA is paying it's fair share because the ATC system is
primarily there because of the airlines. Others use it because it is there.

On Sep 13, 2:38 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
me wrote:
[snip]
Of the traffic being discussed, I'd suspect that is not true. Not
sure
how to prove it however. For GA in general, I'd suspect the vast
majority
would PREFER no ATC.

What airport are you talking about

DED

The current AFD shows that Daytona handles approach and departure and
there's no tower freq listedhttp://www.naco.faa.gov/pdfs/se_56_30AUG2007.pdfand it looks like it seldom
averages more than 2 IFR operations per hourhttp://flightaware.com/analysis/graphs/airport.rvt?airport=KDED.

It was just approved last year. Engineering and planning are going
on now. Not sure they even have an announced opening date.


But all that aside. Do you really think that the incremental cost to the ATC
system for the services provided to a Cessna Citation III are really over
$24/hour? If not then GA is paying it's fair share because the ATC system is
primarily there because of the airlines. Others use it because it is there

Well, I'm not commenting upon all of GA. The comment was made
that
GA jets would "get along fine" without ATC and I think for the true
business jet traffic that just isn't true.

me wrote:


Well, I'm not commenting upon all of GA. The comment was made
that
GA jets would "get along fine" without ATC and I think for the true
business jet traffic that just isn't true.

If it wasn't for concern over running all the airlines up there ATC wouldn't
be needed or what was needed could be paid for out of FAA petty cash.

There are 5 or 6 jets based at my home field (ELD) plus there is almost
always at least one out of town jet on the ramp during the week and we have
5 commuter airline flights per day. No one has ever even thought of it being
a towered airport. And it looks like we have many more IFR operations than
DED http://flightaware.com/analysis/grap...t?airport=KELD

Now, you may have a TON of none IFR ops and the jet guys bullied through a
tower to deal with that.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
me wrote:


Well, I'm not commenting upon all of GA. The comment was made
that
GA jets would "get along fine" without ATC and I think for the true
business jet traffic that just isn't true.

If it wasn't for concern over running all the airlines up there ATC
wouldn't be needed or what was needed could be paid for out of FAA petty
cash.

Thanks...I needed a good laugh!!