Holding Pattern Question

"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..

I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC
will specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.


An EFC is not issued if no delay is expected.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC
will specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.


An EFC is not issued if no delay is expected.



If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?

Matt

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:32:00 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


Because people who write written exams need a reason to ask a
question? G

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller can't
clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't cancelled,
but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller can't
clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't cancelled,
but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.



In that case, you better ask for an EFC if you haven't received further
clearance prior to arrival at the holding fix.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

In that case, you better ask for an EFC if you haven't received further
clearance prior to arrival at the holding fix.


Yes, but in that case the controller expects to issue an approach clearance
before you arrive at the holding fix. That's why no delay is expected.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
In that case, you better ask for an EFC if you haven't received further
clearance prior to arrival at the holding fix.


Yes, but in that case the controller expects to issue an approach clearance
before you arrive at the holding fix. That's why no delay is expected.

It just seems odd that they would issue the hold then. I guess it saves
a little time if you do actually have to hold, but it also seems like it
would be easy to also forget to issue the EFC.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

It just seems odd that they would issue the hold then. I guess it saves a
little time if you do actually have to hold, but it also seems like it
would be easy to also forget to issue the EFC.


Well, if things don't go as expected, what do you think can cause the
greater problem, not issuing the EFC, or not issuing the hold?

Matt Whiting wrote:



It just seems odd that they would issue the hold then. I guess it saves
a little time if you do actually have to hold, but it also seems like it
would be easy to also forget to issue the EFC.


If the controller tells you no delay expected and does not give an EFC,
if you lose radios you do not hold, you procede to an approach or
straight to the airport if an approach is not needed. All this assuming
you are close to your proposed enroute time. ATC has no idea when this
is but you should be close to it if ATC loses separation and there's an
investigation all your ducks will be in a row.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller
can't clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't
cancelled, but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.


I thought you had to get an expect further clearance time as part of the
hold instructions in case your radio failed shortly after directed to hold?
Otherwise, how would you know how many turns to make in holding before
proceeding on course? I'm not arguing, just asking,

Dennis