Expanded World Class

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:12:17 -0000, Vsoars wrote:


I know most of you want soaring to grow and know that the rising cost
of gliders threaten the sport. Don't you wonder why a few people are
trying to kill World Class? Perhaps these are some of the reasons:

None is trying to kill the World class.
In fact, by choosing the PW-5 it commited suicide.

The market has decided. Face it - there are simply very few people
who are excited by flying a PW-5.


Diminished impact. - A few pilots want to impress others with their
terrific flight. They may not want to share the glory with a person
flying a ship costing a fraction of what they spent.

Sharing the glory is not part of the problem.
The problem is that extremely few pilots love to spend big $$$ on a
glider whose performance is inferior to even basic two-seat trainers,
not to mention 1st-generation glass gliders like Libelle, ASW-15 et
cetera that can be bought for one third of the price for PW-5 - and
which outperform the poor PW-5 hands-down.


Recent World
records speak volumes about the PW 5's suitability for long tasks,
even over difficult terrain. We are just beginning to see what the
ship can do.

Depends on the definition of a "long task". The PW-5 offers the same
performance as an ancient Ka-6E - but today's pilots standards are way
higher.


I don't need to explain to you that one class design is the way to
build our sport. Look at one design sailboats. I have never heard a
J Boat owner berate a Sunfish enthusiast. Maybe it's because he/she
learned to sail in that boat. If the World Class loses its one design
status, we will be back to people buying their way into the winner's
circle.

There's one difference though: People actually BUY one-design-class
boats in significant numbers.


Most of you don't feel threatened by the World Class glider. Why not
support the ideals that brought World Class into existence?

Why not simply buy a much cheaper glider that offers far better
perfomance and have fun flying Club Class or Sports Class contests?


Bye
Andreas

On 4 Oct, 18:10, Andreas Maurer wrote:

Depends on the definition of a "long task". The PW-5 offers the same
performance as an ancient Ka-6E - but today's pilots standards are way
higher.

Er-hem. An awful lot of us are still very happy, and having a lot of
sun, flying things with the performance of a Ka-6E. We just don't see
the need to spend £15,000 getting that performance ...

I wonder how things would have turned out if the Discus had been made
the World Class glider?

Ian

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:27:34 -0700, Ian
wrote:


Er-hem. An awful lot of us are still very happy, and having a lot of
sun, flying things with the performance of a Ka-6E. We just don't see
the need to spend £15,000 getting that performance ...

Well.... let me say it that way: No student pilot in my club would
volunteer to fly a glider with less performance than out DG-300s...

I wonder how things would have turned out if the Discus had been made
the World Class glider?

It would have been a success. Definitely.



Bye
Andreas

On 6 Oct, 11:50, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:27:34 -0700, Ian
wrote:

Er-hem. An awful lot of us are still very happy, and having a lot of
sun, flying things with the performance of a Ka-6E. We just don't see
the need to spend £15,000 getting that performance ...

Well.... let me say it that way: No student pilot in my club would
volunteer to fly a glider with less performance than out DG-300s...

It used to be like that at Sutton Bank. People would queue all day for
an hour in a DG-300 ... leaving the Ka-8 free for me to fly whenever I
wanted, for as long as I wanted. I wonder how much of that sort of
attitude is desire or need for performance, and how much is sheer
snobbery?

I wonder how things would have turned out if the Discus had been made
the World Class glider?

It would have been a success. Definitely.

There was a condition, wasn't there, that the plans had to be
available to multiple manufacturers? I suppose that would have put S-H
off a bit. But then, how many manufacturers ever made PW-5's?

Ian

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:11:12 -0700, Ian
wrote:

It used to be like that at Sutton Bank. People would queue all day for
an hour in a DG-300 ... leaving the Ka-8 free for me to fly whenever I
wanted, for as long as I wanted. I wonder how much of that sort of
attitude is desire or need for performance, and how much is sheer
snobbery?

Our Ka-8 is still used extensively, since the students need to fly 40
hrs (total) till they are allowed to fly the 300.

There was a condition, wasn't there, that the plans had to be
available to multiple manufacturers? I suppose that would have put S-H
off a bit. But then, how many manufacturers ever made PW-5's?

Did anyone ever ask SH or LS to publish the blueprints of their
out-of-production Discus and LS-4?


Bye
Andreas

Andreas Maurer wrote:
Did anyone ever ask SH or LS to publish the blueprints of their
out-of-production Discus and LS-4?

RS no longer exists, so the LS4 molds are again being used to produce
gliders. Given the actual difference in performance, do you really
imagine that SH would be willing to risk potential market share to
another company selling "World Class" Discus clones at 50% (or even 75%)
of the cost of a Discus 2?

Marc

Ian wrote:
There was a condition, wasn't there, that the plans had to be
available to multiple manufacturers? I suppose that would have put S-H
off a bit. But then, how many manufacturers ever made PW-5's?

Two, actually, PZL Swidnik and PZL Bielsko which, despite the similarity
in names, are competing companies. There is also a third set of molds
from which one glider was built, the builder was killed in an off-field
landing accident...

Marc

Andreas Maurer wrote:


Well.... let me say it that way: No student pilot in my club would
volunteer to fly a glider with less performance than out DG-300s...



You say that like it's a good thing.


Jack

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:47:24 -0500, J a c k
wrote:

You say that like it's a good thing.

It is.
By the way:
No member in my club pays more than 600$ per year for gliding, all
costs included.
Lots of you people, too.


Bye
Andreas

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:47:24 -0500, J a c k
wrote:

You say that like it's a good thing.

It is.
By the way:
No member in my club pays more than 600$ per year for gliding, all
costs included.
Lots of young people, too.

Bye
Andreas



Edit: spelling
Bye
Andreas