Future in Aviation for my Son?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Tom Conner writes:

Become an engineer and watch your job be out-sourced by
some doofus with an MBA who doesn't know which end is up, but can run
a spreadsheet.

I guess you can become a pilot and watch your job be outsourced to a
pilot from the Third World instead.


Bwawahwhhawhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahwha hwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahhwah
whahhwhahwha!




Not fair you makde me blow my coffee through my nose!


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Robert M. Gary writes:

Pilots with experience are also getting lured overseas with high wages
to help start new national airlines around the world.

That won't last long.


Nah, of course it won't. The 75 year run on that has to end sometime.


Bertie

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 04:09:57 +0000, Robert M. Gary wrote:

Not everyone is that smart. I guess we need to keep jobs around for
those with less intellect.

Which task needs someone "that smart"? Though it was decades ago, that
was pretty much what my Father did. Admittedly, outsourcing wasn't the
issue about which he was worried; I presume (I've never thought to ask)
that he simply wanted to get above the ceiling for only-engineers.

Though he never mentioned his motivation for the MBA to me, he did
mention that the MBA degree was *far* easier than the engineering
degree. We discussed it a lot, actually, while I was taking a mix of
business and engineering classes at my undergrad (and I was whining about
issues such as how the finance classes *avoided* calculus, even when it
was a natural fit for the problem under discussion).

Before going too far along a choice path for Jay's son, I'd revisit his
lack of love for math. If it's something at which he's good, but he
actively dislikes it, there's a decent chance that this is because he's
been/being exposed to math badly in school. This could mean a lot of
different things, from a variation of the Barbi "math is hard" to
teachers that unawaredly teach that the subject is uninteresting or "too
hard to be worth the effort".

I studied and work in computer software, but there was a period of time
during my undergrad when I gave serious though to finding something
else. My classes were borderline painful in their inanity. I then took
some time off, during which the only marketable skill I had was
software. And it became fun again. That showed that it wasn't the area
of interest but only the classes.

Knowing that, I could deal with the classes when I returned.

- Andrew

Thanks for pointing out my error. But the point is, it's a difficult
choice that warrants considerable reflection and introspection.
Psychologists tell us, that to make a choice among a number of
beneficial things is the most difficult.


All kidding aside, you're right. He needs to develop some
introspection, and the ability to evaluate his life from outside of
himself. This isn't easy for any of us, and is especially difficult
as a teenager.

Trouble is, you need experience to successfully self-evaluate -- and
that's the one thing teenagers don't have...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Oct 10, 10:57 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Union Thug" wrote

As far as college; Tell your boy to do what ever he wants but stay
away from most of theses aviation colleges ESPECIALLY Embry Riddle.

You -seriously- need to work on your posting skills.

Thanks for the post Jim. Not sure how that happened and I will make it
clear that this is not the opinion of Jay. Many of these aviation
schools will paint you into a corner career wise . You will spend 60
to 90 K and then have an 1800 a month job to show for it. And if you
change your mind, you wont be qualified to do anything else. It is
better to major in something you can fall back on.



As far as slow times go, there will be no slow times for Joe (or any other
qualified pilots) in the 5 or 6 years it will take to get him ready. They
will be trying to find trained monkeys to be pilots by then.

Right again Jim. There are jobs (At least for now) but the problem is
that they dont pay anything. In real dollars I make less now than I
did 10 years ago.And I will probably make less in 10 years than I do
today. I wont be so bold as to sugest what Jay's kid does with his
life, But I would tell him that if he wants a meaningful decent paying
job he should look outside of flying.

The fears about pensions can be said about -any- job in this day and age.
No profession is safe. That is one reason there are people funding their
own retirements.
Once again, you hit the nail. But consider this, flying is the only
job where the government makes you retire at the peak of your earning
years (OK, maybe ATC too). And lets not even address disability and
survivorship benifits. About a third of us will lose our medicals at
some point in our careers. In the words of a dear friend of mine who
works at Jetblue "I took this ****ty low paying airline job so I can
get some experience, Now all I am qualified to do is hold a ****ty
low paying airline job".
K Baum

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:35:35 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote in . com:

Thanks for pointing out my error. But the point is, it's a difficult
choice that warrants considerable reflection and introspection.
Psychologists tell us, that to make a choice among a number of
beneficial things is the most difficult.


All kidding aside, you're right. He needs to develop some
introspection, and the ability to evaluate his life from outside of
himself. This isn't easy for any of us, and is especially difficult
as a teenager.

Like many things, the more one practices something, the better he
successful be becomes at it.

Trouble is, you need experience to successfully self-evaluate -- and
that's the one thing teenagers don't have...

True.

But it's easy to see that there may be undue aviation influence in his
choice at this time in his life. If he bases his decisions on his
interest de jour, you'll probably be able to tell by his evolving
interest in gynecology. :-)

Engineering is the art of making what you want from stuff you can get.

Having said that, I didn't dislike math, I HATED math. I STILL hate math
the way it is taught. It is just one of those gates that you have to walk
through to get the degree. I *teach* math, and as God is my witness, I try
and make it something that is real and understandable.

Having said that, my degree in physics (or as we called it, the department
of theoretical engineering) opened up a whole vista of opportunities, one of
which could have been flying if I had wanted it. I chose (as your walls are
mute testimony) to go into the space program. I could have gone into
computer programming. I could have gone into semiconductor design. I could
have gone a dozen different directions.

If you go to an "aviation" school and take "aviation", you have one career
choice in one particular field. If you go into computer science, or
engineering, or physics, or chemistry, you have a whole rainbow of choices
and as others have noted, you don't have to have an "aviation" degree to fly
for a living. .

Advice, worth every penny you paid for it...find a community college (get
the kid out of the nest for a while) that has dorms or at least housing near
the school. Try engineering (or physics, or...) for a year. If you STILL
don't like it, you've at least inexpensively eliminated one path and
possibly have found your true love. Or you can come home, say that you want
to go to one of the universities with an aviation program and go for it.

Get a college job wrenching on the weekends (no, I didn't say WENCHING).
Four years later you'll come out with a degree PLUS your A&P PLUS as many
hours as you can afford flying. Maybe a CFI in a couple of hundred hours
and pick up a little spare change doing flight reviews and the like.

Stay away from the "aviation schools" like Embry and such. Sure, they are
pilot mills, but little else.

Worth every penny, eh?

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
As many of you know, my son is taking flight lessons. He's past solo,
and into his cross-country flights.

He's a senior in high school, and is wondering what to do with the
rest of his life. His initial aim has been going into engineering,
but has decided that math is not something he truly enjoys. (Although
he's good at it -- far, far more advanced than I am.)

He's now toying with the idea of a career in aviation. Possibilities
include:

- Commercial pilot
- Helicopter pilot
- Something on the business side of aviation.

Jay Honeck wrote in news:1192104026.696520.138660
@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Agree, although I wish it were otherwise. I changed my major several
times, and ended up taking 5 years to graduate as a result. (I was
also working 35 hours per week, throughout college). Mary, on the
other hand, stayed focussed on her major, thus saving big bucks.

The secret to saving bucks on college is to spend a few years after HS in
different jobs until you find one you like that will also pay for school...
You might even be able to get a few life experience credits!

"RST Engineering" wrote in
:

Engineering is the art of making what you want from stuff you can get.

Having said that, I didn't dislike math, I HATED math. I STILL hate
math the way it is taught. It is just one of those gates that you
have to walk through to get the degree. I *teach* math, and as God is
my witness, I try and make it something that is real and
understandable.




So you can explain why, if I take the time it takes for something in my
hand to hit th e floor and divide that time ad infinitum, the thing still
hits the floor?


Bertie

Richard Riley wrote in
:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:45:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"RST Engineering" wrote in
:

Engineering is the art of making what you want from stuff you can
get.

Having said that, I didn't dislike math, I HATED math. I STILL hate
math the way it is taught. It is just one of those gates that you
have to walk through to get the degree. I *teach* math, and as God
is my witness, I try and make it something that is real and
understandable.




So you can explain why, if I take the time it takes for something in
my hand to hit th e floor and divide that time ad infinitum, the thing
still hits the floor?

The difference between physics and engineering.

In Physics it takes forever to fall. In engineering it gets close
enough for engineering purposes.


Fair enough, but I already knew that!

Bertie