Airplane Pilot's As Physicists

On Oct 11, 10:23 am, "Gatt" wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
Nothing wrong with a little discussion.

Why did you post "True Understanding Or Monkey Mode" about the same thing in
rec.aviation.piloting. Are you accusing pilots of being monkeys?

No. If you read the posts, I was complaining about both the students
and the pilots, mostly the students.

As I mentioned, I was sitting in lobby of flight school one day,
toward the end of ground school class, and there were 7-8 students
cramming for their final and to take FAA KT. We were talking about
what we think we should know, and one of the students hintet that
understanding was not really important. And said, "Well, I'm going to
take the final, and pass hopefully, but I get the feeling that this
class was too fast, and frankly, the only reason I have passed so far
is that I've been cramming." They all laughed and said, "Yeah, and?.
Look, if you want to pass the FAA KT, forget about that book
(Jeppesen's private) pilot. Go to Sporty's. They have a bunch of
questions. Plus you should get as many real FAA test questions.
That's all you need to do, to be able to anticipate what they are
going to ask you." I asked, "Don't you really want to know..or?" They
said, "No, after the exam, it doesn't matter. Not like I'm going for
ATP or anything." I looked around the room and there was general
agreement, although there was one student who understood because he'd
been into flying from very early age (like 10). One of students
announced that this was his 4th time around, and this time he was
focused...but it was apparent that by, "focused", he meant passing the
exam.

If so, do you expect to be treated with some sort of respect by people who
actually read aviation textbooks and fly planes? By the way, how's that
EB-6 training going?

Just trying to get to the bottom of what expectations there should
be. I've taught at professional level, and I can tell you that, while
I did not expect my students to know everything we've covered, when
they took an exam and wrote down an answer, it was due to thinking
through the problem, not memorization.

As for the EB-6, no problem. I studied it in advance before the ground
school class. I knew how to covert between the various types of
altitudes, etc...but I did not really know what density altitude.

I think these topics would be easier to remember if they were thought
through. For example, remember 29.92 on barometer is good, but would
be better if people had some idea of where 29.92 comes from. I asked
around the room, and no one knew, not even the CFI.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote

As I mentioned, I was sitting in lobby of flight school one day,
toward the end of ground school class, and there were 7-8 students
cramming for their final and to take FAA KT. We were talking about
what we think we should know, and one of the students hintet that
understanding was not really important.

Anyone who thinks that will be in for a surprise when they take the oral
portion of the practical test, if they get that far. Good instructors will
be checking their students' comprehension of the required knowledge on a
continuing basis as flight lessons progress. I doubt that you would get a
signoff for your practical from an instructor who suspected that you were
only at the rote learning level.

I think these topics would be easier to remember if they were thought
through. For example, remember 29.92 on barometer is good, but would
be better if people had some idea of where 29.92 comes from. I asked
around the room, and no one knew, not even the CFI.

If true, that's one end of the spectrum I suppose, and one isolated
instance.

BDS

On Oct 11, 12:31 pm, "BDS" wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote

As I mentioned, I was sitting in lobby of flight school one day,
toward the end of ground school class, and there were 7-8 students
cramming for their final and to take FAA KT. We were talking about
what we think we should know, and one of the students hintet that
understanding was not really important.

Anyone who thinks that will be in for a surprise when they take the oral
portion of the practical test, if they get that far. Good instructors will
be checking their students' comprehension of the required knowledge on a
continuing basis as flight lessons progress. I doubt that you would get a
signoff for your practical from an instructor who suspected that you were
only at the rote learning level.

That brings me to next question:

How difficult is the oral part?. Time is limited so obviously they
cannot ask every thing. Is it possible for a student to slip by on the
oral portion and just do well on practical and still pass?

Also, can FAA examiners act as instructors simultaneously or is there
a rule forbidding it?

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

How difficult is the oral part?. Time is limited so obviously they
cannot ask every thing.

No, but displaying weakness on a subject matter will usually draw more
questions, or requests for clarification, on that subject. In my
experience, the examiner will arrive with a plan for each section of the
exam, so that the important stuff will be covered.

For stuff that isn't often used, ex:// FAR minute details, you can ask
to look it up. BS'ing is usually a bad plan if you really don't know
something.

The actual time period is at the discretion of the examiner. There is
no egg timer running during the test.

Also, the oral portion doesn't end when you get into the airplane for
the practical portion. The oral can theoretically continue right up to
when your temporary certificate is issued.

"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in message
oups.com...

How difficult is the oral part?.

It's easy if you know the material. It's going to be related to practical
things like airspace, regulations, medical and equipment requirements, cross
country planning, etc.

Time is limited so obviously they cannot ask every thing. Is it possible
for a student to slip by on the
oral portion and just do well on practical and still pass?

It's possible, but if you can't do well on the oral portion the practical
might really kick your ass, particularly in the flight planning phase.

-c

On Oct 11, 1:31 pm, "Gatt" wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

How difficult is the oral part?.

It's easy if you know the material. It's going to be related to practical
things like airspace, regulations, medical and equipment requirements, cross
country planning, etc.

Time is limited so obviously they cannot ask every thing. Is it possible
for a student to slip by on the
oral portion and just do well on practical and still pass?

It's possible, but if you can't do well on the oral portion the practical
might really kick your ass, particularly in the flight planning phase.

Hmm...that answers that question. We had some flight planning toward
end of class. That's when it really hit me that one actually has to
know what he's doing.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote in
oups.com:

On Oct 11, 1:31 pm, "Gatt" wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
ooglegroups.com...

How difficult is the oral part?.

It's easy if you know the material. It's going to be related to
practical things like airspace, regulations, medical and equipment
requirements, cross country planning, etc.

Time is limited so obviously they cannot ask every thing. Is it
possible for a student to slip by on the
oral portion and just do well on practical and still pass?

It's possible, but if you can't do well on the oral portion the
practical might really kick your ass, particularly in the flight
planning phase.

Hmm...that answers that question. We had some flight planning toward
end of class. That's when it really hit me that one actually has to
know what he's doing.


Ya think?

Bertie

"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote

How difficult is the oral part?. Time is limited so obviously they
cannot ask every thing. Is it possible for a student to slip by on the
oral portion and just do well on practical and still pass?

Download and review the PTS - in general you can be asked about anything in
it. You can fail on the oral alone and never get to the flying portion of
the test. If you do that badly I suspect the examiner will be in touch with
the CFI who gave you the endorsement to take the practical.

Also note that the CFI who endorses you for the practical must also certify
that they have given you instruction in the areas you were found to be
deficient in when you took your knowledge test.

Also, can FAA examiners act as instructors simultaneously or is there
a rule forbidding it?

Depends on what you mean by instruction. If you fail to perform any
maneuver to the PTS standards you are probably not going to get instruction
on how to meet them and then also be rated as satisfactory. Same goes for
the oral.

CFIs who send too many poorly prepared students to examiners will probably
draw the attention of the local FSDO office at some point.

BDS

Le Chaud Lapin wrote in
oups.com:

On Oct 11, 12:31 pm, "BDS" wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote

As I mentioned, I was sitting in lobby of flight school one day,
toward the end of ground school class, and there were 7-8 students
cramming for their final and to take FAA KT. We were talking about
what we think we should know, and one of the students hintet that
understanding was not really important.

Anyone who thinks that will be in for a surprise when they take the
oral portion of the practical test, if they get that far. Good
instructors will be checking their students' comprehension of the
required knowledge on a continuing basis as flight lessons progress.
I doubt that you would get a signoff for your practical from an
instructor who suspected that you were only at the rote learning
level.

That brings me to next question:

How difficult is the oral part?.


For you?Impossible,.

You have to listen to the question before you answer it, ya see.

Also, he will not come to your bedroom to give it.

the flight test is going to be even more difficult unless you've
installed dual controls on your computer.



Bertie

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

How difficult is the oral part?. Time is limited so obviously they
cannot ask every thing.

I don't know where you got the idea that time for the oral is limited. A
good examiner will take as much time as he feels appropriate. I know a
recent applicant that had a 3 1/2 hr. oral.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200710/1