To Pawnee or not to Pawnee...that is the question...

Why is it only old Pawnee vs. new Husky? Are there not used efficient
180hp tugs available in the US?


Dan

Dan G wrote:
Why is it only old Pawnee vs. new Husky? Are there not used efficient
180hp tugs available in the US?

I was up at Milfield with my Libelle a week ago, where they run three
tow planes: 150 Pawnee, 180 Supercub, 235 Pawnee. I couldn't see much
difference between the Supercub and the 235 Pawnee but the 150 Pawnee
had a much slower climb rate than either of the others: more like my
club's 160hp Rallye.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On 16 Oct, 13:54, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Dan G wrote:
Why is it only old Pawnee vs. new Husky? Are there not used efficient
180hp tugs available in the US?

I was up at Milfield with my Libelle a week ago, where they run three
tow planes: 150 Pawnee, 180 Supercub, 235 Pawnee. I couldn't see much
difference between the Supercub and the 235 Pawnee but the 150 Pawnee
had a much slower climb rate than either of the others: more like my
club's 160hp Rallye.

It's actually a 160hp Pawnee - it was uprated a few years back.
Although there have been 150bhp - 180bhp conversion in the US, 160bhp
(it's a helicopter engine) was as far as the CAA would allow without a
complete new set of stress calculations.

When the wee Pawnee arrived it had a four blade prop and a good
silencer: amazingly silent but couldn't pull the skin off a rice
pudding. I remember circling overhead in weak wave for some time
before landing once, waiting for it to get a Bocian off. Three
circuits of the airfield, got to 350', gave up.

Ian

Nobody's mentioned the Scout (Bellanca 8GCBC), with a 180 HP mill
(fixed or constant speed props available).

It kinda' sounds like the club complainer just wants a two-seater to
carry a sightseeing companion -- er, I mean a student tug driver.

It would seem to me that a Scout is roughly equivalent to a Husky, at
less cost, perhaps.

Another consideration: can you run auto gas in the 235?

I've towed with a Pawnee burning auto gas -- worked great, even towing
watered up glass birds (1100 lbs takeoff weight) at high density
altitude (Lone Pine in July). I have fond memories of towing with
that tug, despite the fact it's one of very few airplanes that have
tried to kill me (an exhaust stack broke off INSIDE the
cowl...exciting day, some anesthesia -- 3 bloody mary's -- required).

I've towed banners with 8GCBC's. Banners are far less dangerous to
tow pilots than student glider pilots, but I think a Scout would work
fine. It's an honest airplane, though the extra gear length and span
(compared to its Citabria and Decathalon siblings) make it much more
prone to ground looping.

The Pawnee has much nicer handling qualities than the Scout (sorry,
never flown a Husky). I've also towed with a CallAir A-9, and it's
honest, but not as lithe as a Pawnee (with the same engine). They're
all covered with fabric, so that liability exists for all three.
They're all taildraggers -- so that's equal, regardless of whether you
consider that a liability or an asset (I vote for asset). The only
drawback I see is that the Pawnee only has one seat.

I still concurr with some of the other respondents: regardless of the
fact that you've got $35k invested in the Pawnee, KEEP IT, buy the
glider, and tell the Husky proponents to go buy their own.

-Pete
#309

We have towed with 180HP Scout.. does not compare to 235HP Pawnee
We sold the Scout and bought the Pawnee, we tow from 3000ft MSL field with
110F summer temps
BT

"Dan G" wrote in message
oups.com...
Why is it only old Pawnee vs. new Husky? Are there not used efficient
180hp tugs available in the US?


Dan

We have a 180HP Scout with a fixed pitch climb prop. We have found it
adequate for our needs, even when we fly out of Mackay, ID (5,900' MSL)
during our August regatta.
(http://www.soaridaho.com/photogaller...006/index.html)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/



"BT" wrote in message
...
We have towed with 180HP Scout.. does not compare to 235HP Pawnee
We sold the Scout and bought the Pawnee, we tow from 3000ft MSL field with
110F summer temps
BT

"Dan G" wrote in message
oups.com...
Why is it only old Pawnee vs. new Husky? Are there not used efficient
180hp tugs available in the US?


Dan

On Oct 16, 8:55 pm, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
We have a 180HP Scout with a fixed pitch climb prop. We have found it
adequate for our needs, even when we fly out of Mackay, ID (5,900' MSL)
during our August regatta.
(http://www.soaridaho.com/photogaller...006/index.html)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"http://www.soaridaho.com/

"BT" wrote in message

I don't see any two-seater in the gallery photos. Anyone flying with
water there?

We had a 180hp Scout at 5500msl. It was very marginal on hot days
with water or heavy two-seaters and we used two hours fuel only as
full fuel was too heavy. Fuel tanks had recurring leaks. The wood
spar AD required extensive recurring inspections (there were metal
spar retrofit wings produced). Complete wiring harness was replaced.
We also had a U/C strut break, which took out the prop, engine, wing
tip, and horizontal, and availability. Never quite the same after
repairs. The Scout averaged $1000/month in upkeep and inspections at
commercial rates. Despite several objections, we replaced it with a
Pawnee 235D, later updated with the 250STC. Pawnee was not without
its problems. We looked at 40 Pawnees and went for what we considered
the best available on our budget. In retrospect we should have
budgeted about $10K more and considered a few more options. Plan on
buying the Pawnee a second time in the first 3-4 years until you get
it golden. IMVHO, no one sells a really good tow plane at an average
price. Cost aside, we've had high availability and get good
performance thanks to good management and tow pilot procedures. The
250STC is worth it.

IIRC, a Pawnee (with transponder) was reported towing well above it's
advertised operational ceiling this past summer on a really high tow.
I think our's, also transponder equipped, has been to 11,500msl a
couple of times on tow and still climbing okay.

180hp Scouts with metal spars are still being built. $132,900 with
constant speed prop. Probably a good choice for all around towing at
sites 3000MSL., that is, far more than adequate.

Frank Whiteley

I should have said the issue with the Scout was heavy two seat operations..
as Frank mentioned.
We can have greater than 200ft AGL at runway end after a 2800ft run with the
Pawnee and a heavy two seat Grob 103 or SGS2-33
With the old Scout... barely 75-100ft AGL
And the Pawnee does not even feel the 1-26 on tow
BT

"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 16, 8:55 pm, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
We have a 180HP Scout with a fixed pitch climb prop. We have found it
adequate for our needs, even when we fly out of Mackay, ID (5,900' MSL)
during our August regatta.
(http://www.soaridaho.com/photogaller...006/index.html)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"http://www.soaridaho.com/

"BT" wrote in message

I don't see any two-seater in the gallery photos. Anyone flying with
water there?

We had a 180hp Scout at 5500msl. It was very marginal on hot days
with water or heavy two-seaters and we used two hours fuel only as
full fuel was too heavy. Fuel tanks had recurring leaks. The wood
spar AD required extensive recurring inspections (there were metal
spar retrofit wings produced). Complete wiring harness was replaced.
We also had a U/C strut break, which took out the prop, engine, wing
tip, and horizontal, and availability. Never quite the same after
repairs. The Scout averaged $1000/month in upkeep and inspections at
commercial rates. Despite several objections, we replaced it with a
Pawnee 235D, later updated with the 250STC. Pawnee was not without
its problems. We looked at 40 Pawnees and went for what we considered
the best available on our budget. In retrospect we should have
budgeted about $10K more and considered a few more options. Plan on
buying the Pawnee a second time in the first 3-4 years until you get
it golden. IMVHO, no one sells a really good tow plane at an average
price. Cost aside, we've had high availability and get good
performance thanks to good management and tow pilot procedures. The
250STC is worth it.

IIRC, a Pawnee (with transponder) was reported towing well above it's
advertised operational ceiling this past summer on a really high tow.
I think our's, also transponder equipped, has been to 11,500msl a
couple of times on tow and still climbing okay.

180hp Scouts with metal spars are still being built. $132,900 with
constant speed prop. Probably a good choice for all around towing at
sites 3000MSL., that is, far more than adequate.

Frank Whiteley