Mounties Electrocute Airline Passenger

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:45:08 -0500, Dave S
wrote in :

Turds.. I mean "suspects".. as a general rule
are directly responsible for the events leading to their apprehension,
and if injured, directly responsbible for causing an incident to
escalate to the point of their injury. Its really that simple.

Don't get me wrong, but I find your attitude toward SUSPECTS less than
respectful, to say the least. I'm sure you have encountered many
suspects who deserve to be called much worse, but in the US they are
_innocent_ suspects, regardless of how you feel toward them and
regardless of what information you may have about them, until they
have been convicted in a court of law (yes, that's the law in Texas
too). Such an attitude reflects badly on LEOs in general, and it
speaks volumes ...

I saw a piece on the NBC Nightly News recently about a patrol of four
Navy Seals on a mission in Iraq. It told the story of the soldier
leading them, and how, in the face of them surely informing Al Qaeda
about their patrol, he release some Iraqi civilians that the patrol
encountered, rather than silence them in cold blood. Sure enough, Al
Qaeda was informed, and launched 200 soldiers against the four man US
patrol that resulted in the death of the Seal who had released the
civilians. Despite the deadly danger it placed him in, he knew what
was right and just, and did it despite personal risk. That noble Seal
embodies the spirit of American justice, and he makes me proud to be
an American.

It seems many of us have forgotten that we Americans are not like much
of the world; our determination to uphold justice and freedom used to
set us apart, until the current regime in power in this country
started approving of torturing prisoners, warrantless invasion of
privacy, and trampling on our Constitution.

The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.

The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.

Your knowledge of American history shows definite signs of a
revisionist education.

It's only been in the last 30 years that Americans turned into the
pansies of the world. What you now call "justice" and "nobility" most
of the world called "stupid" and "ineffective".

From the debacle at Desert One (under our now media-revered Jimmy
Carter) until we invaded Afghanistan, America was viewed world-wide as
the superpower that was afraid of a fight. Sure, we'd launch a few
F-111s to drop bombs on bedouins, but it was widely assumed by tyrants
and petty dictators that America was too shell-shocked from Viet Nam
to ever put boots on the ground.

Even the Coalition's stunning success in Kuwait, during Desert Storm,
didn't fully dispel the notion that we wouldn't fight back. Guys like
Sadaam and bin Laden were encouraged by our failure to finish the
job.

IMHO, it was this perception that made us susceptible to attack. The
Islamo-Fascists continued their ever-escalating attacks through 9/11,
when America was finally shaken from its slumber and began kicking
back. Since then, the terrorists have been completely neutralized --
truly a great, historic American victory.

Of course, the liberal media won't present it that way, perhaps ever.
Remember, this is the same group that can't see Korea and Viet Nam as
anything but "American meddling in civil wars." Students of history
understand the significance of these battles, and the fact that they
were, in fact, different fronts in our (victorious) decades-long Cold
War with the Soviet Union and China.

The pendulum has now swung back, perhaps too far the other way.
Sadly, this is normal, in a republic like ours. I suspect it will be
corrected at the next election cycle. (Although, of course, it is
hopelessly simplistic to believe that anything substantive will change
as the result of a presidential election.)

Either way, I completely sympathize with Dave's point of view. Our
society has a large segment of easily identified, blatantly arrogant
scum that make up the lion's share of criminal perps. The cops know
who they are, and anyone with a brain stem knows who they are -- yet
most of the time society is at their mercy until they get caught red-
handed.

It's the domestic version of TSA strip-searching an old lady in order
to look like they're not "profiling". We know who the enemy is, but
we force our gendarmes to put on a huge show of "fairness", even if it
means shaming ourselves and making the streets more dangerous.

Dealing with that segment day after day -- as our "Thin Blue Line"
does -- would harden anyone. The police have my utmost respect.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

We know who the enemy is, but
we force our gendarmes to put on a huge show of "fairness", even if it
means shaming ourselves and making the streets more dangerous.

Perhaps it's the one thing that prevents us from becoming one of them.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:44:42 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote in . com:

The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.

Your knowledge of American history shows definite signs of a
revisionist education.

It's only been in the last 30 years that Americans turned into the
pansies of the world. What you now call "justice" and "nobility" most
of the world called "stupid" and "ineffective".

Of course you can provide objective evidence to substantiate that
claim. :-)

That validity of that assertion wouldn't surprise me, but what the
rest of the world calls the uniquely egalitarian American system of
justice is not very relevant in light of their less-than-just systems.
In any event, just because most of the world is still in the dark ages
culturally, doesn't make their opinions more valid than ours; quite
the contrary.

From the debacle at Desert One (under our now media-revered Jimmy
Carter) until we invaded Afghanistan, America was viewed world-wide as
the superpower that was afraid of a fight. Sure, we'd launch a few
F-111s to drop bombs on bedouins, but it was widely assumed by tyrants
and petty dictators that America was too shell-shocked from Viet Nam
to ever put boots on the ground.

Even if that were true, it would have been an incorrect opinion
obviously. Someone I admire once said, "Walk softly, but carry a big
stick." I prefer that policy to tramping around loudly rattling
sabers (at enormous cost in lives and money) and having nothing but a
display of bravado to show for it in the end.

Even the Coalition's stunning success in Kuwait, during Desert Storm,
didn't fully dispel the notion that we wouldn't fight back.

I would characterize that policy of limited engagement as prudent,
effective, and smart.

Guys like Sadaam and bin Laden were encouraged by our failure to finish
the job.

What failure? The job was finished. Saddam was reduced to a
militarily impotent potentate keeping the "peace" in the middle east.
Now the equilibrium is upset, and fighting is breaking out in Turkey,
Lebanon, Syria, ..., and probably Iran, Jordan, and elsewhere soon.
Not too smart, if stability is an important part of the goal.

They were encouraged by the impediment American freedom and justice
poses to persecution of suspects prior to their committing a terrorist
attack. That is one of the prices of American freedom and justice.

IMHO, it was this perception that made us susceptible to attack.

It was American lack of draconian security measures and despotism that
provided terrorists the window of vulnerability, and still does to a
lesser extent today, IMO.

The
Islamo-Fascists continued their ever-escalating attacks through 9/11,
when America was finally shaken from its slumber and began kicking
back.

Violence begets violence. America's reaction to attack is a natural
human one, but a THINKING leader could have found cheaper, less overt
and more effective methods to neutralize terrorist organizations (for
example not releasing the Bin Laden family to fly out of the country
during the grounding of all civil aircraft immediately after the
September 11, 2001 attacks), if that was truly his objective.

Since then, the terrorists have been completely neutralized --
truly a great, historic American victory.

Well, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! :-)

Terrorism will never be neutralized. Where did you ever get that
idea?

Violence is the sole effective weapon against indifference the
disenfranchised possess. Until (and if) that changes, and the
Russians run out of weapons to supply our enemies, terrorism will
continue. How naïve can you be? (shaking head in incredulity)

Of course, the liberal media won't present it that way, perhaps ever.

So you have firsthand information that contradicts the mainstream news
media? Tell me more...

Remember, this is the same group that can't see Korea and Viet Nam as
anything but "American meddling in civil wars." Students of history
understand the significance of these battles, and the fact that they
were, in fact, different fronts in our (victorious) decades-long Cold
War with the Soviet Union and China.

That war still seems to be alive and well today to some extent. It
would be a mistake for America to believe that we have won a complete
victory in the cold war.

It is unfortunate indeed for America to have such an ineffectual
Gilligan at its helm during this important period in history. The
sooner he is replaced with an intelligent, knowledgeable and creative
leader that other world leaders can be seen publicly respecting
without fear of reprisal from their constituency, the sooner progress
toward peace may resume.

The pendulum has now swung back, perhaps too far the other way.
Sadly, this is normal, in a republic like ours. I suspect it will be
corrected at the next election cycle. (Although, of course, it is
hopelessly simplistic to believe that anything substantive will change
as the result of a presidential election.)

As long as the same corrupt and inept people continue to occupy their
Congressional and Executive seats, little will change. Nothing is
going to correct the immense debt our nation has incurred, and is
currently incurring, to the tune of $2-1/2-billion weekly.

Imagine if that huge amount of money had been used toward reducing
class size, and increasing the skill level of personnel involved in
public education, real research to replace petroleum as our nation's
fuel of choice, infrastructure maintenance, and fundamental scientific
research, instead of being flushed down a toilet called Iraq. Our
nation would become invincible instead of insolvent. But oh well....

Either way, I completely sympathize with Dave's point of view. Our
society has a large segment of easily identified, blatantly arrogant
scum that make up the lion's share of criminal perps. The cops know
who they are, and anyone with a brain stem knows who they are -- yet
most of the time society is at their mercy until they get caught red-
handed.

I hope you never find yourself the subject of a police arrest by an
LEO who mistakes you for one of those "scum." Or perhaps it would be
a fitting irony.

Regardless, ALL persons deserve to be treated with respect and
dignity, even murders, felons, and even illiterate, impoverished
rednecks. The price of that respect isn't nearly as high as the price
of the Gestapo's lost of respect for citizens.

Perhaps you see the Amish, who forgave the killer who coldheartedly
murdered their children recently, as stupid. I see them as
enlightened and noble. We need to surmount or primal instincts and
use our intelligence to learn a lesson, IMO.

It's the domestic version of TSA strip-searching an old lady in order
to look like they're not "profiling". We know who the enemy is, but
we force our gendarmes to put on a huge show of "fairness", even if it
means shaming ourselves and making the streets more dangerous.

A lack of arrests doesn't increase street hazards; it just doesn't
reduce them.

Because you haven't lived under an arbitrary system of (in)justice
that behaves as you seem to prefer (guilty until proven innocent), you
don't really have any idea of the consequences of what you seem to be
proposing.

Dealing with that segment day after day -- as our "Thin Blue Line"
does -- would harden anyone.

Agreed. It's evident in the attitude of many LEOs.

The police have my utmost respect.

Some do and some don't. When I see a LEO needlessly using his
authority and might as an excuse to vent his vicious tendencies
against a helpless citizen overwhelmed by blue-suits, or the planting
of evidence on suspects as occurred in the LAPD Rampart case*, it
makes me cringe, and it should make you feel the same.

Perhaps the situation is different where you are, but citizens in Los
Angeles County and neighboring counties have almost as much to fear
from the LEOs as they do from gangsters and criminals.

It's time the people of our nation halt its progress toward
intolerance, retreat from the rule of law and justice, and demand they
be respected as set forth in our nation's Constitution: all created
equal. As soon as a privileged class exempt from obeying the law
emerges, the beginning of anarchy will be neigh.
/soapbox


In any event, it is unfortunate that the unruly airline passenger (who
apparently threatened no one) died at the hands of Mounties in the
airline terminal. The incident should serve as impetus to refine
arrest methods and procedures.



* http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ndal/cron.html

It's only been in the last 30 years that Americans turned into the
pansies of the world. What you now call "justice" and "nobility" most
of the world called "stupid" and "ineffective".

Of course you can provide objective evidence to substantiate that
claim. :-)

Yep. A prime example was called "The failed Clinton Administration."

In any event, just because most of the world is still in the dark ages
culturally, doesn't make their opinions more valid than ours; quite
the contrary.

Agree 100%, but we're not talking about opinions, we're talking about
actions. The 1990s weres a period of American inactivity and
impotence that set the stage for 9/11.

Even if that were true, it would have been an incorrect opinion
obviously. Someone I admire once said, "Walk softly, but carry a big
stick."

Teddy Roosevelt well understood the concept of power diplomacy.
Sadly, Clinton and his "launch a cruise missile to divert media
attention from Monica's stained dress" strategy only showed bin Laden
and his ilk that Americans were more concerned with blow jobs than
terrorists.

I prefer that policy to tramping around loudly rattling
sabers (at enormous cost in lives and money) and having nothing but a
display of bravado to show for it in the end.

What "policy"? Do you actually think that Clinton's approach was a
"policy"? You have clearly mistaken a president reacting to the
latest opinion polls for policy-making and leadership.

Clinton never led anything or anyone. He followed the polls, period.
He was immensely popular with our allies because he asked for -- and
did -- precisely nothing. He was a nice-talking, chubby stuffed
shirt that they could put on their podiums without fear of making
waves, or stirring thought. He spoke in platitudes, and proposed good-
sounding, unrealistic tripe that no one could object to, because
everyone knew it was just silly stuff.

He was a feel-good guy in a feel-good time -- and he utterly failed to
see the storm brewing.

Even the Coalition's stunning success in Kuwait, during Desert Storm,
didn't fully dispel the notion that we wouldn't fight back.

I would characterize that policy of limited engagement as prudent,
effective, and smart.

Sadly, our enemies did not concur with your assessment.

Guys like Sadaam and bin Laden were encouraged by our failure to finish
the job.

What failure? The job was finished. Saddam was reduced to a
militarily impotent potentate keeping the "peace" in the middle east.

Right. Saddam was able to spin our "retreat" after Desert Storm into
a "victory" that only cemented his place in Middle Eastern
hierarchy. He was the guy who had successfully stuck his thumb in
the eye of the Superpower, and got away with it.

Apparently you have already forgotten the way he took great pride and
pleasure with throwing out the completely impotent United Nations
"inspectors" -- making the US (and UN) the laughing stock of the
world...

Invading Iraq has been precisely as costly as the military knew it
would be, given the relatively tiny commitment we were willing to
make. Personally, I would have much preferred taking out Saddam's
palaces with massive air raids, and then installing a puppet
government like the British used to do. Sadly, that would have taken
many more troops than we were willing to commit.

Had we followed the British recipe, we would be on our way home by
now... Now, we can only follow the strategy of fomenting unrest
between ethnic and religous groups under the cover of democratic
reform (also a British strategy, BTW) -- which will ultimately work
but will be MUCH messier.

Now the equilibrium is upset, and fighting is breaking out in Turkey,
Lebanon, Syria, ..., and probably Iran, Jordan, and elsewhere soon.
Not too smart, if stability is an important part of the goal.

"Fighting is breaking out" in the Middle East? Stop the presses!

:-)

Violence begets violence. America's reaction to attack is a natural
human one, but a THINKING leader could have found cheaper, less overt
and more effective methods to neutralize terrorist organizations (for
example not releasing the Bin Laden family to fly out of the country
during the grounding of all civil aircraft immediately after the
September 11, 2001 attacks), if that was truly his objective.

I don't think it's possible to argue with success. The fact that we
have not been attacked since 9/11, despite massive efforts by the
enemy, speaks volumes as to the effectiveness of our strategy.

Since then, the terrorists have been completely neutralized --
truly a great, historic American victory.

Well, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! :-)

Terrorism will never be neutralized. Where did you ever get that
idea?

Of course it's an ongoing battle, with fluid tactics on all sides.

But I think it's safe and proper to declare "victory" every five years
or so. Pat yourself on the back and then get back to the war... We
have "won" the first five rounds.

Violence is the sole effective weapon against indifference the
disenfranchised possess. Until (and if) that changes, and the
Russians run out of weapons to supply our enemies, terrorism will
continue. How naïve can you be? (shaking head in incredulity)

Which "indifference"? Ours? Theirs?

Terrorism will continue until the futility of it all is made clear to
our enemies. It will not stop one minute before that revelation is
made.

Of course, the liberal media won't present it that way, perhaps ever.

So you have firsthand information that contradicts the mainstream news
media? Tell me more...

You don't seriously believe that the mainstream media would *ever*
report success in the war on terror, do you? I really didn't think
you were *that* naive!

I spent 21 years in newspapers, working closely with the newsrooms. I
can personally attest to the fact that there wasn't a card-carrying
conservative in the newsrooms at any of the four newpapers I worked
for and with. These people would rather die than admit that ANYTHING
G.W. Bush is doing might be working.

Bottom line: Bush can claim victory until America is successfully
attacked again. That's the only measurable in this war.

Remember, this is the same group that can't see Korea and Viet Nam as
anything but "American meddling in civil wars." Students of history
understand the significance of these battles, and the fact that they
were, in fact, different fronts in our (victorious) decades-long Cold
War with the Soviet Union and China.

That war still seems to be alive and well today to some extent. It
would be a mistake for America to believe that we have won a complete
victory in the cold war.

True enough. Russia seems to be stumbling back onto the world stage,
like a drunk after a 3-day bender. And, of course, China has
discovered the way to beat us at our own game. But they are hardly
the same country as Mao's Red China....

It is unfortunate indeed for America to have such an ineffectual
Gilligan at its helm during this important period in history. The
sooner he is replaced with an intelligent, knowledgeable and creative
leader that other world leaders can be seen publicly respecting
without fear of reprisal from their constituency, the sooner progress
toward peace may resume.

If by "peace" you mean "retreat" and if by "creative" you mean
"isolationist", I agree. Cuz that's precisely what is coming down the
pike... If our next president is a Democrat, that is.

As long as the same corrupt and inept people continue to occupy their
Congressional and Executive seats, little will change.

You still haven't come to grips with the fact that our government is
only marginally controlled by elected officials? It's the "corrupt
and inept" career bureaucrats who run virtually EVERYTHING, and
patiently roll their eyes every time some new Gomer is elected,
knowing full-well that they are invulnerable to every attempt at
"reform". All they have to do is bide their time, and wait for the
next group of Congress-critters to roll into town, not knowing where
the rest rooms are...

Until THAT changes, NOTHING will change.

Imagine if that huge amount of money had been used toward reducing
class size, and increasing the skill level of personnel involved in
public education, real research to replace petroleum as our nation's
fuel of choice, infrastructure maintenance, and fundamental scientific
research, instead of being flushed down a toilet called Iraq. Our
nation would become invincible instead of insolvent. But oh well....

Or the space program. Or any of a zillion other things. Or -- better
yet -- let "We the People" actually KEEP our money? Wouldn't THAT be
nice?

I hope you never find yourself the subject of a police arrest by an
LEO who mistakes you for one of those "scum." Or perhaps it would be
a fitting irony.

You need to ride with a cop for a week or two, preferably at night,
preferably in the inner city of a medium-sized (or larger) American
city. Within ten minutes you will be able to pick out the bad guys,
and even you will shake your head at how they control the streets.

Then let's talk all your nice feel-good BS, and we'll see how it
stands up to real-world scrutiny.

Regardless, ALL persons deserve to be treated with respect and
dignity, even murders, felons, and even illiterate, impoverished
rednecks. The price of that respect isn't nearly as high as the price
of the Gestapo's lost of respect for citizens.

No one said anything about not treating them with respect or
dignity. That has NOTHING to do with taking back our streets, and
our inner cities.

It's quite possible to treat perps with dignity and respect, as you
walk them into a prison cell.

Perhaps you see the Amish, who forgave the killer who coldheartedly
murdered their children recently, as stupid. I see them as
enlightened and noble. We need to surmount or primal instincts and
use our intelligence to learn a lesson, IMO.

Forgiveness is an admirable trait; it has nothing to do with
justice. I would forgive someone who stole my car -- but I would also
demand they do prison time.

A lack of arrests doesn't increase street hazards; it just doesn't
reduce them.

WTF? With that way of thinking why have police at all? Let's just
forgive all the bad guys, and quit ****ing away billions on police and
prisons.

Because you haven't lived under an arbitrary system of (in)justice
that behaves as you seem to prefer (guilty until proven innocent), you
don't really have any idea of the consequences of what you seem to be
proposing.

I want a fair and equitable legal system. Right now, the perps have
all the "rights" while the victims are ignored or worse. The pendulum
needs to swing...again.

The police have my utmost respect.

Some do and some don't. When I see a LEO needlessly using his
authority and might as an excuse to vent his vicious tendencies
against a helpless citizen overwhelmed by blue-suits, or the planting
of evidence on suspects as occurred in the LAPD Rampart case*, it
makes me cringe, and it should make you feel the same.

Perhaps the situation is different where you are, but citizens in Los
Angeles County and neighboring counties have almost as much to fear
from the LEOs as they do from gangsters and criminals.

People in Los Angeles County have turned paradise into the hell-hole
it is today -- an area where no good citizen may tread without fearing
for their life.

If the people there fear the police more than gangsters, I think it's
pretty clear why. Or are you that naive?

It's time the people of our nation halt its progress toward
intolerance, retreat from the rule of law and justice, and demand they
be respected as set forth in our nation's Constitution: all created
equal. As soon as a privileged class exempt from obeying the law
emerges, the beginning of anarchy will be neigh.

The only "privileged class" that exists in our society today are the
inner city criminals who so out-number the police that the streets are
like Baghdad, where the "good guys" can only control areas for a few
hours before retreating to safe havens. This "class" knows full well
that they are immune from justice, cannot be prosecuted, and are able
to terrorize and convert any good folks who may still live in their
neighborhoods.

It's a national catastrophe that BOTH parties are ignoring -- with
ultimately long-term horrendous consequences.

In any event, it is unfortunate that the unruly airline passenger (who
apparently threatened no one) died at the hands of Mounties in the
airline terminal. The incident should serve as impetus to refine
arrest methods and procedures.

Agree.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article ,
says...


Even if that were true, it would have been an incorrect opinion
obviously. Someone I admire once said, "Walk softly, but carry a big
stick."

You admire people who misquote former presidents?
Or is this Teddy Roosevelt doing a Nike commercial?

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.


I see no difference between hitting the beaches at Normandy and hitting the
switch for the electric chair - both are necessary in combating
....."evil-doers".


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote:
I see no difference between hitting the beaches at Normandy and
hitting the switch for the electric chair - both are necessary in
combating ...."evil-doers".

Are you sure its been generally agreed that it is okay to execute
prisoners-of-war? That's seems to be the moral equation you are accidently
implying. Wouldn't executing soldiers who surrender make surrender much
less common and battles cost many more lives, among other causal affects?

In other words, for the purposes of establishing moral code, one may
classify two sets (of probably many) of environments involved both for war
and for crime:

War: Active combat and post-surrender.
Crime: Active criminal activity and post-arrest.

An additional problem is that not all active criminal activity warrants
execution. Unless you don't mind being executed for minor traffic
violations, among other often broken laws.

"Montblack" wrote:

I see no difference between hitting the beaches at Normandy and hitting the
switch for the electric chair - both are necessary in combating
...."evil-doers".

I've never believed that capital punishment is the ultimate crime deterrent.
(Never mind the fact that it's for poor folks; rich murderers can lawyer their
way out of it.)

Ask anyone: most people would rather be put to death than spend the rest of
their lives in prison. I certainly would. I know someone who's done some
hard time; "living hell" doesn't do justice to what he experienced.


--
Dan

"Hell hath no fury like a noncombatant."
-Mitchell Coffey

Dan Luke wrote:
"Montblack" wrote:

I see no difference between hitting the beaches at Normandy and hitting the
switch for the electric chair - both are necessary in combating
...."evil-doers".

I've never believed that capital punishment is the ultimate crime deterrent.
(Never mind the fact that it's for poor folks; rich murderers can lawyer their
way out of it.)

I don't care if it is a deterrent in general, but it prevents repeat
offenses and that is good enough for me.


Ask anyone: most people would rather be put to death than spend the rest of
their lives in prison. I certainly would. I know someone who's done some
hard time; "living hell" doesn't do justice to what he experienced.

I'm a kind person and believe in giving criminals what they want. Why
be cruel and keep them locked up for years taking up space that some
other deserving criminal could be using?

Matt