How come the wings bank when I use the rudder

("Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" wrote)
'cause if it didn't, your feet would have nothing to do ;-)


http://www.ercoupe.org/images/37.jpg
That would be awful...! :-)


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote in
:

("Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" wrote)
'cause if it didn't, your feet would have nothing to do ;-)


http://www.ercoupe.org/images/37.jpg
That would be awful...! :-)



It is. I flew one of the old pedal-less ones for a couple of days giving a
guy who had rebuilt one and hadn't flown for years a re-intro to flying.
God awful!
there is a brake pedal, though. A stalk type pedal I think it came out of a
'38 DeSoto.
The Pilot's handbook said that to deal with a too high situation on
approach you should pull th estickk full aft and let the rate of descent
increase that way until you were back in the slot..

Yech.

Always liked the look of them though. Could have been worse, it could have
been the Gwinn Air car hat filled that Niche!

Bertie

In addition to what others have said, another interesting question to
ponder is why the airplane yaws when you bank.

The yaw is induced by the ailerons, so the only time you need to apply
rudder is when you are changing your bank angle with the ailerons. On
the side where the aileron is down, the wing has more lift, and more
drag. On the other side, the lift is spoiled and there is less drag.
The draggy wing yaws backwards, requiring opposite rudder.

This is why when you initiate a bank, you need to apply rudder in the
direction of the bank while the ailerons are in use, but not once you
stabilize the bank and neutralize the ailerons. When you roll back
wings level, you need to apply rudder the other direction to once
again compensate for the ailerons.

Dean

wrote in news:1192935582.999886.201640
@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:


In addition to what others have said, another interesting question to
ponder is why the airplane yaws when you bank.

The yaw is induced by the ailerons, so the only time you need to apply
rudder is when you are changing your bank angle with the ailerons. On
the side where the aileron is down, the wing has more lift, and more
drag. On the other side, the lift is spoiled and there is less drag.
The draggy wing yaws backwards, requiring opposite rudder.

that's adverse yaw. I beleive he meant why does the airplane yaw in the
same direction (eventually) as the direction of roll?


Bertie

On Oct 21, 3:56 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:1192935582.999886.201640
@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:



In addition to what others have said, another interesting question to
ponder is why the airplane yaws when you bank.

The yaw is induced by the ailerons, so the only time you need to apply
rudder is when you are changing your bank angle with the ailerons. On
the side where the aileron is down, the wing has more lift, and more
drag. On the other side, the lift is spoiled and there is less drag.
The draggy wing yaws backwards, requiring opposite rudder.

that's adverse yaw. I beleive he meant why does the airplane yaw in the
same direction (eventually) as the direction of roll?

Bertie



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bertie,

I assumed that adverse yaw was what he was asking about since it is
the most pronounced effect.

To answer the question the other way:

The reason for rudder use in a sustained bank is due to the fact that
the airspeed of the outside wing is slightly higher than the airspeed
of the inside wing due to the difference in arc-distance that each
wing is traveling in a turn. The outside wing has a little more drag
due to the higher airspeed and a little bit of rudder is required to
compensate.

Dean

wrote in news:1193070733.442941.237020
@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

On Oct 21, 3:56 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:1192935582.999886.201640
@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:



In addition to what others have said, another interesting question
to
ponder is why the airplane yaws when you bank.

The yaw is induced by the ailerons, so the only time you need to
apply
rudder is when you are changing your bank angle with the ailerons.
On
the side where the aileron is down, the wing has more lift, and
more
drag. On the other side, the lift is spoiled and there is less
drag.
The draggy wing yaws backwards, requiring opposite rudder.

that's adverse yaw. I beleive he meant why does the airplane yaw in
the
same direction (eventually) as the direction of roll?

Bertie



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bertie,

I assumed that adverse yaw was what he was asking about since it is
the most pronounced effect.

To answer the question the other way:

The reason for rudder use in a sustained bank is due to the fact that
the airspeed of the outside wing is slightly higher than the airspeed
of the inside wing due to the difference in arc-distance that each
wing is traveling in a turn. The outside wing has a little more drag
due to the higher airspeed and a little bit of rudder is required to
compensate.



Ooops!

I don't think that is what he was asking either! Though both statements
you made are correct.

I think he was asking why, when you bank, the airplane also (eventually)
yaws in the same direction.
Simply put, if you bank without yaw, you slip (after the adverse yaw
thing settles down a bit) and that slip will apply a force to the fin,
coarsely dragging the nose into roughly the direction the airplane is
going.
But, as this poster points out, adverse yaw will cause it to initially
yaw in the opposite direction due to adverse yaw, and then rudder will
be required to ensure the yaw is tangential to the line of flight.
IOW the fin will knock the airplane in roughly the right direction but
you need to use your feet.


Bertie

Paul kgyy wrote:
On a 3 hour cross country today I was amusing myself by flying with
rudder pedals only (all right, OK, a little yoke usage to maintain
altitude). But then I got to wondering why applying rudder pressure
causes the plane to bank.

The rudder causes the airplane to yaw; one wing goes faster, generating
more lift; the other wing goes slower, generating less lift.

vince norris

What gives, guys? Good question followed by three answers that
actually agree? What's up with that? Where's the usenet controversy?


Bob
The rudder causes the airplane to yaw; one wing goes faster,
generating more lift; the other wing goes slower, generating less
lift.

vince norris

--
I'm trying a new usenet client for Mac, Nemo OS X.
You can download it at http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo

Bob Clough wrote in news:nemoSat102007091418
@newsgroups.comcast.net:

What gives, guys? Good question followed by three answers that
actually agree? What's up with that? Where's the usenet controversy?


Hey, I gotta slep every now and again, ya know.


Bertie

Isn't interesting that entry level RC Aircraft only have rudder and elevator
controls.. and then turn just fine.
Funny that a full sized airplane would react the same way.

In a stall, you pick up the low wing with rudder, not aileron, that only
adds adverse yaw, more drag on the low wing, and fights the rudder.
BT

"Paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...
On a 3 hour cross country today I was amusing myself by flying with
rudder pedals only (all right, OK, a little yoke usage to maintain
altitude). But then I got to wondering why applying rudder pressure
causes the plane to bank. All I could think of was that rudder usage
produces asymmetric lift because one wing is somewhat blanked by the
sideways motion induced by the rudder? Also, the rudder surface is
above the plane's center of lift but I don't know how much of a factor
that is.