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Jim Logajan wrote in
: "patrick mitchel" wrote: After watching the multiplicity of ac doing their jobs on the southern cal fires this last week and hearing that the guvmint C130 had the wrong sized tanks and the forestry dept and said guvmint were haggling over what should be done, I thought I'd ask what is the opinions of others regarding what current - or hypothetical craft would be considered for the role. Thanks Pat Airships. JMHO. Yes, and a cheap suborbital launch system when you relelase the water! Hard to think of anything better to get near a turbulent fire as well. Bertie |
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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote in : Airships. JMHO. Yes, and a cheap suborbital launch system when you relelase the water! WWI Zeppelins dropped tons of bombs on England and I'm pretty sure none went suborbital. I'm sure the crews would have loved to gain the altitude to get clear of anti-aircraft fire! ;-) Hard to think of anything better to get near a turbulent fire as well. I presume they would drop from a higher altitude when turbulence got too strong. I suspect lower airspeed would translate to better drop control - it's not like they have to worry about AA fire ;-). If needed I suppose they could even use tethers to help maintain station in high winds (maybe even use a long hose to a source of water on the ground?). Though I admit tethers can cause more control problems than expected for LTA craft. On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp caught in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent conditions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1 |
#3
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Jim Logajan wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Jim Logajan wrote in : Airships. JMHO. Yes, and a cheap suborbital launch system when you relelase the water! WWI Zeppelins dropped tons of bombs on England and I'm pretty sure none went suborbital. I'm sure the crews would have loved to gain the altitude to get clear of anti-aircraft fire! ;-) Hard to think of anything better to get near a turbulent fire as well. I presume they would drop from a higher altitude when turbulence got too strong. It's pretty strong around even relativle small fires, and the thermal draft is unbeleivable. I can't see it being very controllable at all, bu tthen I don't even fly balloons let alone airships. ..I suspect lower airspeed would translate to better drop control - it's not like they have to worry about AA fire ;-). If needed I suppose they could even use tethers to help maintain station in high winds (maybe even use a long hose to a source of water on the ground?). Though I admit tethers can cause more control problems than expected for LTA craft. On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp caught in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent conditions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo Wow! that was cool! It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1 They were vry lucky, really. If you've never read the account of the Navy's airships you should. The stories of their encounters with CB is unforgettable reading. Bertie |
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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote: On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp caught in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent conditions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo Wow! that was cool! It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1 They were vry lucky, really. I have a bit more on that airship incident, if you are interested in that sort of stuff. The following is quoted with permission from Rick Zitarosa who posted this to the University of Colorado e-mail Airship-List about a month ago: "This was the summer 2005 wreck of the STARS AND STRIPES near its home base at Pompano. The pilot took off with marginal weather approaching....the only passenger aboard was his BROTHER. Apparently it was figured he could take his brother up for a spin and get back before any bad weather affected the flight or field conditions. He got caught in the storm that radar had pretty-well WARNED him about, from all appearances he either badly trimmed or outright STALLED the airship and then it fell down stern first and hit a warehouse. This particular pilot had already been previously implicated in a mooring mast deflation accident, from what I'm told (but Goodyear is an outfit that has always been known to "give the dog TWO BITES" unless the mistake might be from incredible stupidity or carelessness.) The ship was lost, though the nearly-new envelope was later repaired at no small expense. This was the FOURTH Goodyear airship to be wrecked in FIVE YEARS and there was considerable speculation about the fact that this spate of accidents had started to occur when many of the Senior LTA pilots had started to retire and, a) whether the ship would be replaced AT ALL b) whether Goodyear might throw in the towel on its "in house" LTA operation and simply outsource the whole thing to some outfit like Lightship Group and start flying A-150's on a "wet lease" with the Goodyear name simply decaled onto the side. The pilot ended up "grounded" and in a desk job for the duration of the investigation at the Goodyear Wingfoot Lake facility where other LTA employees could pass his desk and glare at him daily. The Investigation Board was not particularly charitable to the pilot's judgement (a couple of old-time pilots' judgement renderings following review of amateur video of the situation were downright PROFANE) and the pilot was eventually "sacked." (Remember, Goodyear originally provided a lot of pilots into the Navy program of World War II who became senior Reserve Officers/Instructors and there was always a heavy "Goodyear" stamp on Navy LTA.. Indeed, many of the postwar Goodyear blimp pilots were former Navy or trained by former Navy and even a couple of pilots still flying today remember "learning LTA" in the 70's and 80's from old-time pilots who were TYRANTS! One of the old Senior pilots had the nickname " Old Turkey Neck" because he could be simultaneuosly be reprimanding a new student pilot and still lean his head WAY OUT the car window to bellow at a ground crewman r" Hey, what the hell you doing with THAT LINE?????") Am told that he is actually a decent pilot and a HELL OF A NICE GUY, but as far as Goodyear was concerned he was directly responsible for losing a $10 million airship and he had to go. He apparently still works in the LTA industry today....there is something of a limited number of pilots, particularly in peak months, and Goodyear is not the only game in town. Have some good video footage of the old N10A AMERICA making a (successful) emergency landing in a sandstorm in Texas...will try to post it one of these days." If you've never read the account of the Navy's airships you should. The stories of their encounters with CB is unforgettable reading. I have several books on my bookshelf that have harrowing (and tragic) tales of such encounters, including non-U.S. navy ops: "Sky Ships - A History of the Airship in the United States Navy" by William F. Althoff, "The Zeppelin in Combat - A History of the German Naval Airship Division, 1912 - 1918" by Douglas H. Robinson, "Dr. Eckener's Dream Machine - The Great Zeppelin and the Dawn of Air Travel" by Douglas Botting. |
#5
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Jim Logajan wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Jim Logajan wrote: On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp caught in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent conditions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo Wow! that was cool! It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1 They were vry lucky, really. I have a bit more on that airship incident, if you are interested in that sort of stuff. The following is quoted with permission from Rick Zitarosa who posted this to the University of Colorado e-mail Airship-List about a month ago: Have some good video footage of the old N10A AMERICA making a (successful) emergency landing in a sandstorm in Texas...will try to post it one of these days." Like to see it, but haven't got the time to do a lot of airship reading at the moment.. I read a few years ago, mostly about the USN's operations with rigids in the thirties. |
#6
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Jim Logajan wrote:
"Dr. Eckener's Dream Machine - The Great Zeppelin and the Dawn of Air Travel" by Douglas Botting. I read this one over the summer. Excellent and very well written. I highly recommend it. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200710/1 |
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