When to descend II

Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?


From 4SW of Royce...

I'd go to Royce as instructed, and begin my visual descent after
crossing Royce, making my right turn inbound, and visually identifying
the airport.

Crossing Royce @ 2000 doesn't make for an uncomfortable descent, and
it's not so far out of the way, so I don't think I'd bother to question
the clearance.

If things weren't busy, I'd probably just ask if I can head for the
numbers once I was on with the tower.

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are switched to
the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The OP did receive
such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at the time)Does the
altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in control
of my heading and altitude
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared
visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers
and come on down?


From 4SW of Royce...

I'd go to Royce as instructed, and begin my visual descent after crossing
Royce, making my right turn inbound, and visually identifying the airport.

Crossing Royce @ 2000 doesn't make for an uncomfortable descent, and it's
not so far out of the way, so I don't think I'd bother to question the
clearance.

If things weren't busy, I'd probably just ask if I can head for the
numbers once I was on with the tower.

pgbnh wrote:
OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are switched to
the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The OP did receive
such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at the time)Does the
altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in control
of my heading and altitude

Not until you reach ROYCE and the visual approach clearance becomes
effective.

Just like reporting the OM to the tower when the weather is 200 and 1/2
and the tower says "Cleared to land."

Bee wrote:

pgbnh wrote:

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are
switched to the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The
OP did receive such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at
the time)Does the altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in
control of my heading and altitude


Not until you reach ROYCE and the visual approach clearance becomes
effective.

Just like reporting the OM to the tower when the weather is 200 and 1/2
and the tower says "Cleared to land."



Reporting the marker to the tower is not necessary unless asked for.

Newps wrote:


Bee wrote:

pgbnh wrote:

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are
switched to the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land.
(The OP did receive such a clearance, but it was not clear where he
was at the time)Does the altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in
control of my heading and altitude



Not until you reach ROYCE and the visual approach clearance becomes
effective.

Just like reporting the OM to the tower when the weather is 200 and
1/2 and the tower says "Cleared to land."




Reporting the marker to the tower is not necessary unless asked for.

And, your point is?

"Bee" wrote in message ...

Not until you reach ROYCE and the visual approach clearance becomes
effective.


The visual approach clearance was effective the instant it was issued.

pgbnh wrote:

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are switched to
the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The OP did receive
such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at the time)Does the
altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in control
of my heading and altitude


You are correct.

Newps wrote:



pgbnh wrote:

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are
switched to the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The
OP did receive such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at
the time)Does the altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in
control of my heading and altitude



You are correct.

So, it is now okay to descend into that traffic that you speculated
exists in your early post in this thread?

Yes, because the issuance of the 'Clear to land' indicates that the traffic
is no longer an issue. I forget the FAR numbers, but I believe my obligation
is to comply with the most recently received directions from ATC. Clear to
land means I am the decision maker on heading and altitude and previous
restrictions and directions no longer apply
"Bee" wrote in message ...
Newps wrote:



pgbnh wrote:

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are
switched to the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The
OP did receive such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at
the time)Does the altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in
control of my heading and altitude



You are correct.

So, it is now okay to descend into that traffic that you speculated exists
in your early post in this thread?

At the least I would ask the tower if the ROYCE crossing restriction was
deleted.

pgbnh wrote:
Yes, because the issuance of the 'Clear to land' indicates that the traffic
is no longer an issue. I forget the FAR numbers, but I believe my obligation
is to comply with the most recently received directions from ATC. Clear to
land means I am the decision maker on heading and altitude and previous
restrictions and directions no longer apply
"Bee" wrote in message ...

Newps wrote:



pgbnh wrote:


OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are
switched to the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The
OP did receive such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at
the time)Does the altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in
control of my heading and altitude



You are correct.

So, it is now okay to descend into that traffic that you speculated exists
in your early post in this thread?