How dangerous is soaring?

wrote:


But is it worth
it???

PS

Yep.

You're gonna die sometime. Why not live while you're breathing?

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...aring/200710/1

I am having similar thoughts as the original poster going through my
mind everytime I hear about another fatality, especially someone I
knew (2 so far this year!). And I think most repliers are correct, for
most of us, it worth it, but probably not for our families and
friends...
I think the most important is to understand the big risk involved, and
not to be in denial like some posters who believe that as long as you
are not doing stupid mistakes you are safe. No matter how safe you
think you are, the risk is still significantly higher than most normal
activities (such as driving). Of course, there are measures we could
take to significantly reduce the risk, such as only fly in stable air,
far from terrain, never get further than 10:1 glide back to the
airport, etc, but than it wouldn't be much fun wouldn't it?

Ramy


On Oct 30, 10:59 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" u33403@uwe wrote:
wrote:

But is it worth
it???

PS

Yep.

You're gonna die sometime. Why not live while you're breathing?

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/soaring/200710/1

On 31 Oct, 00:50, Ramy wrote:

I think the most important is to understand the big risk involved, and
not to be in denial like some posters who believe that as long as you
are not doing stupid mistakes you are safe.

If that's a reference to me then you have missed my point. Which is
that by no being stupid the risk can be enormously reduced, not that
soaring can be safe. Nothing is safe.

If it's not a reference to me just ignore this!

Ian

Not sure I agree with Ramy entirely...

How many traffic accidents have you seen through the years while
driving to the gliderport?

In that same time frame, how many gliders acidents have you seen at
that gliderport?

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

On Oct 30, 5:50 pm, Ramy wrote:
" No matter how safe you think you are, the risk is still
significantly higher than most normal activities (such as driving). "

How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?

jeplane wrote:
Not sure I agree with Ramy entirely...

How many traffic accidents have you seen through the years while
driving to the gliderport?

In that same time frame, how many gliders acidents have you seen at
that gliderport?

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

On Oct 30, 5:50 pm, Ramy wrote:
" No matter how safe you think you are, the risk is still
significantly higher than most normal activities (such as driving). "

On Oct 31, 2:11 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?

So you are telling me driving is safer than flying? Not sure if I
would drive or fly with you!...:-)

jeplane wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:11 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?

So you are telling me driving is safer than flying? Not sure if I
would drive or fly with you!...:-)

I think most of us that have been in the sport for 20 or 30 years have
known more people that were killed in glider accidents than car
accidents. If you limit it to glider pilots killed in cars versus in
gliders, it makes glider flying look even more dangerous.

As a group, we manage to drive cars much more safely than we fly our
gliders, in good part because (as already mentioned elsewhere) glider
flying is much less forgiving.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On 31 Oct, 23:08, jeplane wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:11 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:

How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?

So you are telling me driving is safer than flying? Not sure if I
would drive or fly with you!...:-)

There are about 30,000,000 licensed drivers in the UK. About 3,000
people get killed on the roads every year. That's 1 fatality per
10,000 drivers.

From memory, there are about 5,000 members of UK gliding clubs. About
2 - 3 people get killed gliding per year, on average. That's 1
fatality per 2,500 pilots.

The everage driver does 10,000 miles per annum, which is 200 hours at
50mph. The average gliding club member does something like 10 hours
per annum.

So that's 1 fatality per 2,000,000 driver-hours against 1 fatality per
25,000 pilot-hours.

I'd welcome correction on the figures - I'm doing this from memory of
stuff I looked up ~10 years ago, but I'd be very surprised if driving
risk came within an order of magnitude of soaring risk.

Ian

Ian wrote:
On 31 Oct, 23:08, jeplane wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:11 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:

How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?
So you are telling me driving is safer than flying? Not sure if I
would drive or fly with you!...:-)

There are about 30,000,000 licensed drivers in the UK. About 3,000
people get killed on the roads every year. That's 1 fatality per
10,000 drivers.

From memory, there are about 5,000 members of UK gliding clubs. About
2 - 3 people get killed gliding per year, on average. That's 1
fatality per 2,500 pilots.

The everage driver does 10,000 miles per annum, which is 200 hours at
50mph. The average gliding club member does something like 10 hours
per annum.

So that's 1 fatality per 2,000,000 driver-hours against 1 fatality per
25,000 pilot-hours.

I'd welcome correction on the figures - I'm doing this from memory of
stuff I looked up ~10 years ago, but I'd be very surprised if driving
risk came within an order of magnitude of soaring risk.

10 hours/year sounds low to me. I'd have guessed 20-30 hours at least.
In support of that figure I did what seemed like very little flying this
year, but found to my surprise that I'd managed 35 hours. I'd guess that
I'd do 50-70 hours in a year with more normal weather.

I thought I'd read that the UK had around 8000 active glider pilots but
I won't argue with you over a change that has relatively little impact
on your argument.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Oct 31, 12:51 pm, jeplane wrote:
Not sure I agree with Ramy entirely...

How many traffic accidents have you seen through the years while
driving to the gliderport?

In that same time frame, how many gliders acidents have you seen at
that gliderport?

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

On Oct 30, 5:50 pm, Ramy wrote:
" No matter how safe you think you are, the risk is still
significantly higher than most normal activities (such as driving). "

Not as many road accidents as I have seen at the gliderport!!

Lets face it guys Gliding is Dangerous.
Very Dangerous if you start to push the envelope of your experience
and comfort level.

I have lost over the years more than 10 friends or acquaintances.
When I raced sailboats or windsurfed I never lost any!

This summer was a real bad one for me loosing a very close flying
buddy Geoff Loyns, then Steve Fossett goes missing and now Stew.
All I knew through soaring, hanging at the airport or conversing on
here and emails.

I love soaring and think it has given me some of the best memories of
my life.
But as I look at my young son I am drawn between the selfish urge to
mental floss with soaring and the reality of life.
Running a Start up company with employees that rely on my breathing
and working is another factor.

I will probably keep flying but in a different way than I used to.
My flying will be less risky and not as aggressive as previous years.
I want to also explore other sides of soaring that I have not
experienced as much, such as enjoying the moment more than chasing
after distance/speed.

Don't get me wrong Soaring is an amazing sport but you have to realize
it is dangerous.
It is the only sport I know where if you screw up you will probably
die!!
That is a sobering thought for sure.
Any one who tells you otherwise either is on crack or has not been
around the sport for a long time.
Just hang around the glider port long enough and you WILL loose flying
friends.

It is a fact most people die in bed smelling of urine and lysol,
So the trade off here is gliding or pressing the button above your bed
screaming for the nurse to change your bed pan!!

On that note I will stop waffling..

Regards

Al