Singapore down selects three fighters...

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:44:07 -0700, Harry Andreas wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

AESA,

What's this?

Active Array radar. Higher performance and more versatile than
mechanicaly scanned planar arrays. More reliable too.

At the moment Typhoon uses the CAPTOR radar, but this may well
change to the AMSAR active array radar in future. There's also the
possibility of a conformal smart skin array of sensors, firther
increasing radar capability.

360 degree IRST,

My understanding is Eurofighter has an IRST too.

the 360 part is very important.

Possibly. In any case, I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to add a
reverse-looking one to Typhoon, perhaps on a wingtip pod.

stealth, -9X,

The AIM-9X will have a shorter range than the Meteor (I'm assuming
that Singapore would buy it, it seems quite logical if they are
going for an air superiority fighter). So the Typhoons would be able
to get the first shot in (not only that, since they are faster than
the F-35, they have the ability to decide at what range the
engagement takes place). If the engagement does get to close range,
the Typhoon has (according to figures I've seen) a better thrust to
weight ratio and lower wing loading. F-35 has thrust vectoring, but
late models of the Typhoon might too. Typhoon is dynamically
unstable, which should increase its maneouvrability.

You seem fixated on close range combat.

I don't think so; I did specifically say that long range missiles
would be used first, but there's a possibility of close range
combat -- I've no idea how high that possibility is.

Postulating a South Asia Typhoon v F-35 engagement, what makes
you think the more stealthy F-35 won't use NCTR then shoot the
Typhoon in the face BVR with an AIM-120?

I don't know what NCTR is, so I won't discuss that. If the F-35 is
switching its radar on to detect the Typhoon, then the Typhoon will
presumably be able to detect this (the signal will be
billions of times stronger at the Typhoon than what's received back
at the F-35), so I am doubtful of the possibility of the F-35
sneaking up on the Typhoon undetected.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

If you read the company releases, CAPTOR is actually performing a lot better
than expected, and at a level comparable with todays AESA radars.
Supposedly (and I know very little about radars) it will keep itself in
service for a lot longer than previously thought, and may just jump to the
next big technical leap?

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:44:07 -0700, Harry Andreas
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

AESA,

What's this?

Active Array radar. Higher performance and more versatile than
mechanicaly scanned planar arrays. More reliable too.

At the moment Typhoon uses the CAPTOR radar, but this may well
change to the AMSAR active array radar in future. There's also the
possibility of a conformal smart skin array of sensors, firther
increasing radar capability.

360 degree IRST,

My understanding is Eurofighter has an IRST too.

the 360 part is very important.

Possibly. In any case, I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to add a
reverse-looking one to Typhoon, perhaps on a wingtip pod.

stealth, -9X,

The AIM-9X will have a shorter range than the Meteor (I'm assuming
that Singapore would buy it, it seems quite logical if they are
going for an air superiority fighter). So the Typhoons would be able
to get the first shot in (not only that, since they are faster than
the F-35, they have the ability to decide at what range the
engagement takes place). If the engagement does get to close range,
the Typhoon has (according to figures I've seen) a better thrust to
weight ratio and lower wing loading. F-35 has thrust vectoring, but
late models of the Typhoon might too. Typhoon is dynamically
unstable, which should increase its maneouvrability.

You seem fixated on close range combat.

I don't think so; I did specifically say that long range missiles
would be used first, but there's a possibility of close range
combat -- I've no idea how high that possibility is.

Postulating a South Asia Typhoon v F-35 engagement, what makes
you think the more stealthy F-35 won't use NCTR then shoot the
Typhoon in the face BVR with an AIM-120?

I don't know what NCTR is, so I won't discuss that. If the F-35 is
switching its radar on to detect the Typhoon, then the Typhoon will
presumably be able to detect this (the signal will be
billions of times stronger at the Typhoon than what's received back
at the F-35), so I am doubtful of the possibility of the F-35
sneaking up on the Typhoon undetected.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:44:07 -0700, Harry Andreas
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

AESA,

What's this?

Active Array radar. Higher performance and more versatile than
mechanicaly scanned planar arrays. More reliable too.

At the moment Typhoon uses the CAPTOR radar, but this may well
change to the AMSAR active array radar in future. There's also the
possibility of a conformal smart skin array of sensors, firther
increasing radar capability.

Conformal arrays are so far in the future as to be effectively a
daydream. Not to mention the impact on the airframe, fuselage,
and systems will be so dramatic as to require almost a new platform.
I don't see it as being retro-fittable.


360 degree IRST,

My understanding is Eurofighter has an IRST too.

the 360 part is very important.

Possibly. In any case, I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to add a
reverse-looking one to Typhoon, perhaps on a wingtip pod.

Typhoon is already a very crowded aircraft. It may be more difficult
than you imagine.


stealth, -9X,

The AIM-9X will have a shorter range than the Meteor (I'm assuming
that Singapore would buy it, it seems quite logical if they are
going for an air superiority fighter). So the Typhoons would be able
to get the first shot in (not only that, since they are faster than
the F-35, they have the ability to decide at what range the
engagement takes place). If the engagement does get to close range,
the Typhoon has (according to figures I've seen) a better thrust to
weight ratio and lower wing loading. F-35 has thrust vectoring, but
late models of the Typhoon might too. Typhoon is dynamically
unstable, which should increase its maneouvrability.

You seem fixated on close range combat.

I don't think so; I did specifically say that long range missiles
would be used first, but there's a possibility of close range
combat -- I've no idea how high that possibility is.

Postulating a South Asia Typhoon v F-35 engagement, what makes
you think the more stealthy F-35 won't use NCTR then shoot the
Typhoon in the face BVR with an AIM-120?

I don't know what NCTR is, so I won't discuss that. If the F-35 is
switching its radar on to detect the Typhoon, then the Typhoon will
presumably be able to detect this (the signal will be
billions of times stronger at the Typhoon than what's received back
at the F-35), so I am doubtful of the possibility of the F-35
sneaking up on the Typhoon undetected.

NCTR - Non Cooperative Target Recognition

Radar has many modes, and new ones are becoming availabe.
That's all I'll say about that.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:30 -0700, Harry Andreas wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Postulating a South Asia Typhoon v F-35 engagement, what makes
you think the more stealthy F-35 won't use NCTR then shoot the
Typhoon in the face BVR with an AIM-120?

I don't know what NCTR is, so I won't discuss that. If the F-35 is
switching its radar on to detect the Typhoon, then the Typhoon will
presumably be able to detect this (the signal will be
billions of times stronger at the Typhoon than what's received back
at the F-35), so I am doubtful of the possibility of the F-35
sneaking up on the Typhoon undetected.

NCTR - Non Cooperative Target Recognition

Umm, that's sound bizare to me -- isn't it normal for the target
to not co-operate in being recognised?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

"phil hunt" wrote in message

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:10:30 -0700, Harry Andreas
wrote:
NCTR - Non Cooperative Target Recognition

Umm, that's sound bizare to me -- isn't it normal for the target
to not co-operate in being recognised?

Depends. Civilian aircraft are supposed to squawk a transponder code, but
sometimes don't. So are friendly aircraft (unless the enemy can spoof your
IFF). An aircraft not squawking could be hostile, or it could be a neutral
airliner or friendly aircraft with a failed or inactive transponder.

NCTR gives you a way to identify an aircraft type by specific
characterisitcs of the radar return. Various different techniques are used;
I won't even try to go into details of how they do it. KNowing the typer of
aircraft, you can then make a more informed decision about the contact's
status.

IN Gulf War 1, two positive forms of ID were required to authorize a shoot.
AWACS track from an Iraqi point of origin was good for one. NCTR or Visual
ID was good for another. Lack of IFF did not count.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)