A-4 / A-7 Question

In article , Daryl Hunt says...


"Replacement_Tommel"
'SINV ALIDBABY wrote in message


IIRC when WWII was over the USAF had a choice between scrapping the P-51
or
scrapping the P-47, since the P-51 was a "sexier" plane, they chose the
P-51
(desiginated F-51 later on). When Korea rolled around, the prop jobs were
assigned CAS duties. The Navy and the Marines were using air-cooled
Corsairs
(not the SLUF Daryl, the original one - the bent wing bird) and enjoyerd a
greater success with them than the USAF did.

Gee and to think you made the claim that they went out of service in 1949.

Apparently, the P-38 Lightning did.

Imagine that. They were used into the 1950s exactly as I stated.

I mentioned the P-51 (F-51), the P-47 and the the Corsair. The P-38 was gone by
then, Daryl.

The P-38 was as well as the P-51.


Daryl, by the Korean war they were gone.

Now, answer this one. Why was the Corsair such a sucky bird overall and why
did the Gyrenes drool when a P-38 past them in flight? Why were there so
many ground loops from the F-4U? Time for you to hit the google search
engine and the books once again. But make sure you stay inside. It's not
safe out in the real world.


Daryl, I don't have to hit Google for this because I'm a bit of a warbird buff.
The Corsair wasn't a sucky bird at all. It had some problems, yes - The long
nose was thought (by the Navy) to be problematic during landings, it had a habit
of throwing oil, but it was generally considered a good fighter and considered
by many to be the best one in the PTO.



Why?

Because an air-cooled engine is a lot more rugged when hit by groundfire
than a liquid-cooled engine is.

hate to bust your bubble but I entered the AF as a Recip Mechanic. It was
later on changed to Propulsion Technician. My uniforms weren't green. They
were black.

The P-38 was the first fighter to be able to disengage anytime it wished.
The others didn't have that option. As one Lighting pilot put it, "If I was
Jumped from above and didn't like the situation, I just disengaged". If the
38 lost an engine, they found the nearest cloud bank and hid out. Unless
you were in one of the pieces of crap that was sold to the British, that is.
Now, what was the main difference between the export 38s and the domestic?
Comon Hero, let's hear it.


They had crappier engines installed in them.

BTW what does that have to do with the statement "Because an air-cooled engine
is a lot more rugged when hit by groundfire than a liquid-cooled engine is."?

BTW are you claiming to have worked on P-38s now?

And I trust you know why the P-38s weren't considered a great fighter in ETO and
why most of them were shipped off to the PTO don't you?



BTW red, he'll just claim that the Air Force History Support Office is
full of it...

No, just you.


So you admit that they were right and that P-38s were withdrawn before the
Korean War then?

-Tom

"For the cause that lacks assistance/The wrong that needs ressistance/For the
Future in the distance/And the Good that I can do" - George Linnaeus Banks,
"What I Live for"

UMA Lemming 404 Local member, 404th MTN(LI)

"Replacement_Tommel"
'SINVA LIDBABY wrote in message
...
hate to bust your bubble but I entered the AF as a Recip Mechanic. It
was
later on changed to Propulsion Technician. My uniforms weren't green.
They
were black.

The P-38 was the first fighter to be able to disengage anytime it wished.
The others didn't have that option. As one Lighting pilot put it, "If I
was
Jumped from above and didn't like the situation, I just disengaged". If
the
38 lost an engine, they found the nearest cloud bank and hid out. Unless
you were in one of the pieces of crap that was sold to the British, that
is.
Now, what was the main difference between the export 38s and the
domestic?
Comon Hero, let's hear it.


They had crappier engines installed in them.

BZZTTT, wrong answer. The domestics had counterrotating engines. If you
lost and engine, the torgue factor was lessened. The Exports had right turn
engines only and were prone to spriral when the Left Engine was lost.



BTW what does that have to do with the statement "Because an air-cooled
engine
is a lot more rugged when hit by groundfire than a liquid-cooled engine
is."?

BTW are you claiming to have worked on P-38s now?

Give your trolling a rest for a bit.



And I trust you know why the P-38s weren't considered a great fighter in
ETO and
why most of them were shipped off to the PTO don't you?

Do you? Or are you going to post something by a long since dead author.
Newsflash, those are opinions as well.





BTW red, he'll just claim that the Air Force History Support Office is
full of it...

No, just you.


So you admit that they were right and that P-38s were withdrawn before the
Korean War then?

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the squadron of them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out of Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

Daryl Hunt wrote:
"Replacement_Tommel"
'SINVA LIDBABY wrote in message
...

hate to bust your bubble but I entered the AF as a Recip Mechanic. It

was

later on changed to Propulsion Technician. My uniforms weren't green.

They

were black.

The P-38 was the first fighter to be able to disengage anytime it wished.
The others didn't have that option. As one Lighting pilot put it, "If I

was

Jumped from above and didn't like the situation, I just disengaged". If

the

38 lost an engine, they found the nearest cloud bank and hid out. Unless
you were in one of the pieces of crap that was sold to the British, that

is.

In this discussion, I presume the export versions mentioned below
and the "pieces of crap ... sold to the British" both refer to the
Lightning I and Lightning II (which were modified by due to the
British specifications, which called for a different engine
and no turbosupercharging (in the case of the Lightning I),
along with other system changes (radios, O2 equipment, etc.).

None of the Lightning Is were actually accepted by the British.
The Lightning IIs were similarly rejected by the British, even
though these were from a later specification and would have
suffered from none of the flaws that the British felt the
Lightning I suffered. The Lightning I's were used by the USAAF
as P-322 or RP-322 aricraft, IIRC, while the Lightning IIs were
reworked on the assembly lines, becoming P-38F or G models.
British pilots never flew the Lightning in combat that I've
seen documented. Later P-38s and F-4/F-5 aircraft used
by the Free French, Chinese, etc., were supplied straight
out of normal production and were therefore identical to
US airframes when delivered- radios, etc., may have been
changed out, but the aircraft themselves were straight off
the assembly lines as standard delivery models. So the
British never bought (or paid for) any Lightnings from
Lockheed. Perhaps they might have if the contracts
(especially for the Lightning II) were under the later
lend-lease program, but they weren't and the British
nearly defaulted on the contract, being "saved" from
doing so when the US Army snapped up all Lightnings
after the US entry into the war.


Now, what was the main difference between the export 38s and the

domestic?

Comon Hero, let's hear it.


They had crappier engines installed in them.


BZZTTT, wrong answer. The domestics had counterrotating engines. If you
lost and engine, the torgue factor was lessened. The Exports had right turn
engines only and were prone to spriral when the Left Engine was lost.


These export models did indeed have C series 1710's, which were
installed in the XP-38, but abandoned for engines with different gear
cases (F series I think, don't have reference handy). The C
series both rotated in the same direction to ease supply issues, and
were common to the P-40s in British service. They also developed less
power than the later series engines. The result of the rotation
change from the P-38's was poorer handling, IIRC, but the main
performance problem was related to the removal of the
turbosuperchargers. Supercharger production was fairly low rate at
the time, and up to the placement of the order, air combat had taken
place at relatively low altitudes. By the time the aircraft were
coming off the assembly line, British requirements no longer matched
what they had ordered. The lack of turbosupercharger for the V-1710
engines resulted in high altitude performance which was not acceptable
to the British (it was, however, within the performance specs of
the contract). There was also the issue of high speed buffet, but
that was also something not specified in the contract, and corrected
shortly thereafter by introduction of the leading edge fillets for
the wing center sections.

BTW, as far as entering a spiral if the left engine was lost,
the right hand rotation of the prop would have resulted in the
same rotation on the remaining engine whether in a Lightning I
or P-38 of any model except the XP (props on production P-38s
rotated outwards, so the right engine had right rotation).
This actually INCREASED P-factor which resulted in yawing
and rolling tendencies, but was found to be necessary during
flight testing of the XP-38 due to disturbed airflow over
the wing center section.

As a note, the XP-38 and Ligntning I engine nacelles are
easily distinguishable from other models, as the thrust line
off the engine gearbox was lower on the C series, and the
prop sits visibly lower on the those two aircraft than on
the P-38s using the later series engine. The XP of course,
had numerous other differences and didn't really look like
any of the P-38s from the YP on.

Mike

"Daryl Hunt" wrote in message ...
"Replacement_Tommel"
'SINVA LIDBABY wrote in message
...
hate to bust your bubble but I entered the AF as a Recip Mechanic. It
was
later on changed to Propulsion Technician. My uniforms weren't green.
They
were black.

The P-38 was the first fighter to be able to disengage anytime it wished.
The others didn't have that option. As one Lighting pilot put it, "If I
was
Jumped from above and didn't like the situation, I just disengaged". If
the
38 lost an engine, they found the nearest cloud bank and hid out. Unless
you were in one of the pieces of crap that was sold to the British, that
is.
Now, what was the main difference between the export 38s and the
domestic?
Comon Hero, let's hear it.


They had crappier engines installed in them.

BZZTTT, wrong answer. The domestics had counterrotating engines. If you
lost and engine, the torgue factor was lessened. The Exports had right turn
engines only and were prone to spriral when the Left Engine was lost.



BTW what does that have to do with the statement "Because an air-cooled
engine
is a lot more rugged when hit by groundfire than a liquid-cooled engine
is."?

BTW are you claiming to have worked on P-38s now?

Give your trolling a rest for a bit.



And I trust you know why the P-38s weren't considered a great fighter in
ETO and
why most of them were shipped off to the PTO don't you?

Do you? Or are you going to post something by a long since dead author.
Newsflash, those are opinions as well.





BTW red, he'll just claim that the Air Force History Support Office is
full of it...

No, just you.


So you admit that they were right and that P-38s were withdrawn before the
Korean War then?

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the squadron of them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out of Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

~Michael

On 17 Oct 2003 07:52:17 -0700, Michael wrote:

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the squadron of them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out of Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

Oh now you're just trolling Daryl. ;-)

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!
www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

B Co, 404th Signal Battalion,
404th Infantry Division (Lemming)
"We *are* UMA!"

"David Casey" wrote in message
news
On 17 Oct 2003 07:52:17 -0700, Michael wrote:

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the squadron of
them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out of
Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

Oh now you're just trolling Daryl. ;-)

He stated a fact, Troll. Buckley has been through so many Command Changes,
the USAF is now the flavor of the month.

Daryl Hunt wrote:

"David Casey" wrote in message
news
On 17 Oct 2003 07:52:17 -0700, Michael wrote:

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the squadron of
them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out of
Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

Oh now you're just trolling Daryl. ;-)

He stated a fact, Troll. Buckley has been through so many Command Changes,
the USAF is now the flavor of the month.

but how do you square the fact that it was Navy during the "late 50's"
with your claim that a flight of Air Force P/F-38's was based there?

face it, you're breaking the law again with your posts in this thread.

redc1c4,
http://www.buckley.af.mil/heritage.htm (base history starts on pg 5 %-)
--
A Troop - 1st Squadron
404th Lemming Armored Cavalry

"Velox et Capillatus!"

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:40 -0600, Daryl Hunt wrote:

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

Oh now you're just trolling Daryl. ;-)

He stated a fact, Troll. Buckley has been through so many Command Changes,
the USAF is now the flavor of the month.

Funny, it appears someone else showed you to be wrong *again*. So, now
we're just trolling you, right? LOL!

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!
www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

B Co, 404th Signal Battalion,
404th Infantry Division (Lemming)
"We *are* UMA!"

"Daryl Hunt" wrote in message ...
"David Casey" wrote in message
news
On 17 Oct 2003 07:52:17 -0700, Michael wrote:

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the squadron of
them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out of
Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

Oh now you're just trolling Daryl. ;-)

He stated a fact, Troll. Buckley has been through so many Command Changes,
the USAF is now the flavor of the month.

Right, but the Navy was the flavor of the month when you supposedly
saw P-38s fying out of there. So what's your next story? The Navy
was flying P-38s?

~Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Daryl Hunt" wrote in message
...
"David Casey" wrote in message
news
On 17 Oct 2003 07:52:17 -0700, Michael wrote:

My vision may be failing now but it was fine when I saw the
squadron of
them
overfly the Dairy I was living at at the time. And they were out
of
Buckley
Air Field outside of Denver. In otherwords, Air National Guard.

According to

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/...ty/buckley.htm

Buckley was a Naval Air Station from '47 to '59.

Oh now you're just trolling Daryl. ;-)

He stated a fact, Troll. Buckley has been through so many Command
Changes,
the USAF is now the flavor of the month.

Right, but the Navy was the flavor of the month when you supposedly
saw P-38s fying out of there. So what's your next story? The Navy
was flying P-38s?

Are you aware that each one has taken command for Admin reasons? Buckley
didn't change in it's Services represented. It still has a large Navy,
Marine, Army and Airforce representation. Regardless of who's' turn it is
to command it, it's mission for support for the Rocky Mountain Region hasn't
changed in decades. There is even Coast Guard Units. The Aircraft that are
permenently stationed there are Air National Guard as well as Marine and
Army. All that ever changes is the Administrative Command. The Air Force
decided with the loss of Lowry and the Regional Hospital that an expansion
was needed to fill in those gaps. But the Units have not changed nor has
the mission. Check out what Buckley actually does. You may be surprised.