F-15/16 Harpoon ( Was: B-52/Harpoon)

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

"Thomas Schoene" wrote:


Accuracy should be comparable to a JDAM (since it uses the same
guidance package). That's not a TLAM, but it is better than a poke
in the eye with a sharp stick.

It's not an accuracy issue. We're back to the 'how do it fly' issue.
Note that the GPS is NOT really intended to allow you to attack land
targets, but rather to do littoral work and use it in crowded
waterways.

Yes, I know. But the fact remains that it will fly to a set of GPS
coordinates and go bang. I call that a limited land-attack capability.


But that's not why we don't have to worry about it.

Fred, if you have a point, please just make it already. This
eliptical BS is getting very tedious.

The point was made over a day ago. The folks buying these are also
buying purpose-built ASMs as part of the packages.

Sorry Fred, I see no sign of such a post in the articles I have received in
this thread. It's possible something didn't make it to me, I suppose. If
it was somewhere in the Israeli thread instead, but I gave up on that one a
couple of days ago.


--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

"Thomas Schoene" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

: "Thomas Schoene" wrote:
:
:
: Accuracy should be comparable to a JDAM (since it uses the same
: guidance package). That's not a TLAM, but it is better than a poke
: in the eye with a sharp stick.
:
: It's not an accuracy issue. We're back to the 'how do it fly' issue.
: Note that the GPS is NOT really intended to allow you to attack land
: targets, but rather to do littoral work and use it in crowded
: waterways.
:
:Yes, I know. But the fact remains that it will fly to a set of GPS
:coordinates and go bang. I call that a limited land-attack capability.

So do I. Very limited, since it's not much good in any but the
flattest terrain. Oh, you could presumably deliberately use air
launched to what is essentially a 'line of sight' point, but surely
there are so many better weapons for that that no one would do it.

: But that's not why we don't have to worry about it.
:
: Fred, if you have a point, please just make it already. This
: eliptical BS is getting very tedious.
:
: The point was made over a day ago. The folks buying these are also
: buying purpose-built ASMs as part of the packages.
:
:Sorry Fred, I see no sign of such a post in the articles I have received in
:this thread. It's possible something didn't make it to me, I suppose. If
:it was somewhere in the Israeli thread instead, but I gave up on that one a
:couple of days ago.

Someone from Korea (pretty sure it was in this thread, but maybe not)
commented on the F-15K deal shortly after I posted my remark the first
time with something along the lines of "That's right, because we're
buying SLAM-ER, too."

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

"Thomas Schoene" wrote:
Yes, I know. But the fact remains that it will fly to a set of GPS
coordinates and go bang. I call that a limited land-attack
capability.

So do I. Very limited, since it's not much good in any but the
flattest terrain. Oh, you could presumably deliberately use air
launched to what is essentially a 'line of sight' point, but surely
there are so many better weapons for that that no one would do it.

I suspect it may get used from time to time, especially against port
facilities. Some navies with Harpoon II have no other options right now.

It's hard to tell, but some sources suggest that the Advanced Harpoon
control system can produice overland flight profiles, presumably including
some terrin clearance.

Someone from Korea (pretty sure it was in this thread, but maybe not)
commented on the F-15K deal shortly after I posted my remark the first
time with something along the lines of "That's right, because we're
buying SLAM-ER, too."

OTOH, you said the same thing about Poland, and their package includes only
JDAM and JSOW, not a powered stand-off weapon like SLAM-ER.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

"Thomas Schoene" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

:
: Someone from Korea (pretty sure it was in this thread, but maybe not)
: commented on the F-15K deal shortly after I posted my remark the first
: time with something along the lines of "That's right, because we're
: buying SLAM-ER, too."
:
:OTOH, you said the same thing about Poland, and their package includes only
:JDAM and JSOW, not a powered stand-off weapon like SLAM-ER.

Yes, I did. Compare the range of Harpoon Block II to the range of a
JSOW. Again, not much point in trying to make the Harpoon into some
sort of land attack weapon. It would cost more than it was worth,
given that you already HAVE a dedicated land attack weapon with
roughly the same range and a better warhead.


--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

"Thomas Schoene" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message


Someone from Korea (pretty sure it was in this thread, but maybe
not) commented on the F-15K deal shortly after I posted my remark
the first time with something along the lines of "That's right,
because we're buying SLAM-ER, too."

OTOH, you said the same thing about Poland, and their package
includes only JDAM and JSOW, not a powered stand-off weapon like
SLAM-ER.

Yes, I did. Compare the range of Harpoon Block II to the range of a
JSOW. Again, not much point in trying to make the Harpoon into some
sort of land attack weapon. It would cost more than it was worth,
given that you already HAVE a dedicated land attack weapon with
roughly the same range and a better warhead.

I geuss we're just talking past each other a bit. I agree that this is not
the missile anyone would buy specifically for land-attack. However, the
mssile has the capability and will be in inventory. With so few ship
targets to deal with these days, I expect that some countries will use it in
land-attack mode, if only to justif having bought it in the first place.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

Fred J. McCall wrote in message . ..
"Thomas Schoene" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

:
: Someone from Korea (pretty sure it was in this thread, but maybe not)
: commented on the F-15K deal shortly after I posted my remark the first
: time with something along the lines of "That's right, because we're
: buying SLAM-ER, too."
:
:OTOH, you said the same thing about Poland, and their package includes only
:JDAM and JSOW, not a powered stand-off weapon like SLAM-ER.

Yes, I did. Compare the range of Harpoon Block II to the range of a
JSOW. Again, not much point in trying to make the Harpoon into some
sort of land attack weapon. It would cost more than it was worth,
given that you already HAVE a dedicated land attack weapon with
roughly the same range and a better warhead.

Unless you launch from a ship or sub. Harpoon BII adds GPS to improve
navigation to reduce the anti-ship search area. Once you have GPS on
a Harpoon BII, it is a relatively small step to go to land attack,
especially for near shore targets. Many countries around the world
already have Harpoon launchers on subs and ships. With Harpoon BII
and a minor upgrade to all those launchers, they could have a
sub-launched and ship-launched land attack capability cheap -- kind of
a poor man's TLAM if your targets are not very far inland.