A-4 / A-7 Question

"Marc Reeve" wrote in message
...
Daryl Hunt wrote:

The 51st Fighter Wing of Osan AB, Korea had a few P-38s as in 1950.
They
were trying to get rid of them as quickly as possible. Lose one and you
get a brand new F-80. Didn't take them long. They also had a few P-51s
as well.

The 82nd Fighter Wing used the P-38s for Escort Duties as well during
Korea
before they were replaced.

There isn't a lot of info on the P-38, the P-47 or the P-51 but just
enough
to verify that they were still in service in 1950 at the beginning of
the
Korean War. But talking with some Korean Air Vets, they stated that the
buried many of them to get the new jets.

Martin Caidin, not that he's necessarily a valid source, stated such in
the intro to his book "Fork-Tailed Devil: The P-38". Claimed that orders
came down to "dispose" of the Lightnings - but they weren't to be handed
to our nominal allies, the South Koreans, so they were bulldozed into a
ditch and covered over. (He then maunders about how much those planes
would be worth today, yadda yadda yadda.) The implication was that he
had witnessed it personally, but again, it was Caidin, so who knows if
that was true.

-Marc

(actually, my bull**** alarm is pinging - he may have been referring to
the initial withdrawal of US troops from Korea that led the DPRK to
think it'd be safe to invade. I'll have to dig up the book & check.)
--

I suspect he's right BUT that incident happened in 1945 , a lot of other
planes got treated the same way right after the war as the units
were disbanded and the men shipped home.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Marc Reeve" wrote in message
...
Daryl Hunt wrote:

The 51st Fighter Wing of Osan AB, Korea had a few P-38s as in 1950.
They
were trying to get rid of them as quickly as possible. Lose one and you
get a brand new F-80. Didn't take them long. They also had a few P-51s
as well.

The 82nd Fighter Wing used the P-38s for Escort Duties as well during
Korea
before they were replaced.

There isn't a lot of info on the P-38, the P-47 or the P-51 but just
enough
to verify that they were still in service in 1950 at the beginning of
the
Korean War. But talking with some Korean Air Vets, they stated that the
buried many of them to get the new jets.

Martin Caidin, not that he's necessarily a valid source, stated such in
the intro to his book "Fork-Tailed Devil: The P-38". Claimed that orders
came down to "dispose" of the Lightnings - but they weren't to be handed
to our nominal allies, the South Koreans, so they were bulldozed into a
ditch and covered over. (He then maunders about how much those planes
would be worth today, yadda yadda yadda.) The implication was that he
had witnessed it personally, but again, it was Caidin, so who knows if
that was true.

-Marc

(actually, my bull**** alarm is pinging - he may have been referring to
the initial withdrawal of US troops from Korea that led the DPRK to
think it'd be safe to invade. I'll have to dig up the book & check.)
--

I suspect he's right BUT that incident happened in 1945 , a lot of other
planes got treated the same way right after the war as the units
were disbanded and the men shipped home.

I'm probably going to fan all sorts of foolishness, but here's what
the Air Force History Office, via _Combat Units of the Air Force_,
Maurer Maurer, Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., and
_Combat Squadrons of the Air Force_, Maurer Maurer, Governmnet
Printing Office, Washington, D.C.
have to say on the subject of Fighter Equipment in the post-WW 2 era:

P-38 units:
The following units were equipped with P-38s just postwar:
1st Fighter Group - Inactivated October 1945
8th Fighter Group - Converted to P-51s in 1946
49th Fighter Group - Converted to P-51s in 1946
51st Fighter Group - Inactivated in late 1945
57th Fighter Group - Converted to P-51s in early 1947
67th Recon Group - Inactivated in March 1946
347th Fighter Group - Inactivated December 45
474th Fighter Group - Inactivated November 45
475th Fighter Group - Stationed at Kimpo, Koea in September '45
Converted to P-51s in mid '46.
Moved to Japan in 1948, Inactivated April '49
So - A couple of things- I looks liks all the P-38s wer gone from
frontline units by January 1947. A few might have been around long
enough to get redesignated as F-38s, but none were serving in combat
units.
As far as the Guard and Reserves goes, the Air Force Reserve didn't
have organized flying units at that time. When it did organize units,
they "partnered" with active units at the same bases, flying the same
equipment. (Similar to the Reserve Associate Units today).
The Air National Guard was more formally organized - Light Bomber
units flew B-26s, (Invaders), and Fighter Units West of the
Mississippi floew F-51s. Fighter units in the East flew P-47s. This
started to get a bit jumbled up as units converted to other types -
F-80s and F-84B/Cs mostly, (The B C model Hogs were pretty much
hopeless as combat aircraft) but still pretty much held true until
after the Korean War. While each squadron had a couple of T-6s, an
L-5, or similar, and a C-47 as hacks, the Guard never got F-38s.

The F-47 and the F-51 stuck around for quite a while.
Here's the pre-Korean War situation
Active F-47 units we
18th Fighter Group - converted to F-51s in '48
36th Fighter Group - converted to F-80s in '47
81st Fighter Group - Flew F-47s between January 48 and May 49.
86th FIghter Group - converted to F-84s in 1950.

Active F-51 units: Until outbreak of the Korean War
8th Fighter Group/Fighter Bomber Group - converted to F-80s in 1950.
10th Recon Group/Tactical Recon Group - converted to RF-80s in April
'49
18th Fighter Group/Fighter Bomber Group - converted to F-80s in late
1949.
35th Fighter Group/Fighter Interceptor Group - conv. to F-80s in 1950.
49th FG/FBG - conv to F-80s in '48 (But there weren't enough to go
around - they had F-51s on hand until late '49)

At the time of the North Korean Invasion, all Fighter Groups of the
Far East Air Forces (Later PACAF) were equipped with F-80s. There
were also 3 Fighter(All Weather) Squadrons that had just traded their
clapped-out F-61s for F-82s.
It was soon found that the F-80, flying from Japanese bases, didn't
have enough loiter time to supply proper close air support to the UN
troops on the Lorean Peninsula. They also had runway requirements
that made their use from unimprooved airstrips difficult. To supply
proper CAS (Since at that time, CAS meant flying low and visually
dropping bombs and strafing), FEAF decided to re-equip some units with
the F-51s that ere still in storage in Japan and the Philippines. The
8th FBG and 35th FIG each re-equipped 2 of their 3 squadrons with
F-51s, and maitained a single F-80 squadron. The 18th FBG equipped
all of its squadrons with F-51s, and also acted as host units for the
77 Squadron, RAAF, and 2 Sqn, RSAAF, Mustang squadrons that had been
part of the Japanese occupation force. The 8th FBG reverted to all
F-80s in December 1950, and the 35th FIG re-equipped with jets (F-80s,
F-85s, and F-94s) in 1951. The 18th FBG flew F-51s until 1953, when
they re-equipped with F86F-20s. (The Fighter-Bomber version with 4
wing pylons)

Most of the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard units were called
up during the Korean War. With the exception of a couple of Light
Bomber and Troop Carrier groups, the called-up Reserve units were
disbanded, and their personnel used to fill out active units. Air
Guard units fleshed out the expanding Air Defence Command, Tactical
Air Command, and Strategic Air Command organizations. Some activated
Air Guard units did deploy overseas, but all fighter units who did so
were converted to either F-84s or F-86s.
The point to that ramble is that if the Air FOrce had decided that it
really needed F-47s rather than F-51s be used in Korea, they were
immediately available and ready. (BTW the last F-47 flying hours were
recorded in Calender Year 1955, according to the Air Force Safety
Office)
With the rapid expansion of the USAF during the Korean War, there were
sometimes more units being formed than new aircraft were available to
equip them. The following units were temporatily equipped with F-51s
until their jets became available.

21st Fighter Bomber Group - Activated in Jan. '53, conv. to F-86 in
April 53
50th FBG - Activated Jan 53, conv to F-86 in Spring 53
366th FBG - Activated Jan 53, conv to F-84 in Spring 53
479th FBG - Activated Dec 52 - COnv to F-86 early 53.

So to make a long story short - No F-38s in any combat units after
1947.
Nobody bulldozing F-51s in order to get jets. In fact, 3 units put
jets into storage in otder to reequip with F-51s.

--
Pete Stickney

Lo, many moons past, on 17 Oct 2003 15:53:34 -0700, a stranger called
by some (Peter Stickney) came forth and
told this tale in us.military.army

I'm probably going to fan all sorts of foolishness, but here's what
the Air Force History Office, via _Combat Units of the Air Force_,
Maurer Maurer, Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., and
_Combat Squadrons of the Air Force_, Maurer Maurer, Governmnet
Printing Office, Washington, D.C.
have to say on the subject of Fighter Equipment in the post-WW 2 era:

Excellent information, sir!

Of course, Daryl will cry, scream and accusde you of being a Troll.
But once again, he has been shown to be a lying ignoramus.

--

Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

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