737 thinks it's a DC-10?

On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:33:11 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"F. Baum" wrote in
oups.com:

On Nov 8, 4:33 pm, "Morgans" wrote:

I would think that an engine loss would have made a noticeable
difference
in CG, no?
--
Jim in NC

Jim, here again, I cant really say. The 727 had a max landing wieght
of 154500 and the GC shfted aft during flight anyways, but it was
probably still noticable. A big problem with fuselage mounted engines
is that anything that comes off the plane went through the engines
(Ice, frost, chunks of tire etc). Most of the time a catastrophic tire
falure on TO would result in FODing out the 1 or 3 engine.
The AA incident was kinda interesting because it resulted from a
malfunction in the lavitory dump valve that caused blue juice to leak
down the side of the fuselage. Of course this stuff froze up at
altitude and then broke off and went through the #3 engine. The crew
handled it as a engine failure and when they got on the ground ATC
made a comment about losing the #3 engine to which they responded how
ATC would know which engine was shut down. This is when they found out
the engine had departed the aircraft.
As for MXs asertion that you can take off with two engines, he is full
of it as usual. There would not be enough directional control to do
this on most of these jets. The only jet that I know of that could be
ferried with an engine out was the DC8. This required special aircrew
training and it still resulted in a few fatal accidents.Hope this
helps.



He wasn't talking about ferrying, he was talking about a V1 cut as far
as I could see.
You can ferry a 727 with one out. My company has done it and I've seen
the Boeing paperwork for it. It's not a big deal in the 72'
You can also get some twins off on one engine from a standing start!
You just have to introduce power gradually. I've done it in a 757 sim at
210,000 off a 10,000 foot runway. I've been told that it's legal to
ferry a 757 on one engine but I have no credible confirmation of this. I
have no doubt it could be done, though. Why you would want to is beyond
me, though.
I also remember seeing an accident report involving some guy who tried
to get an Apache airborne on one. IIRC it was somewhere in Ohio. He
couldn't get the left one going due cold weather and so decided to try a
windmill start airborne.
Greatest optimist who ever lived.


Bertie


Bertie

You have heard about starting a jet fighter with another jet?

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the jet
exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to start
RPM and it was started and both flew away.

Some one may remember where this took place and why it had to be done
(Korea???)

They may have landed some place with no maintenance and used this
procedure to get home vs sending in a repair crew???

Big John

Big John wrote in
:

Bertie

You have heard about starting a jet fighter with another jet?


Yes, I've seen it done to a stranded 707 when no GPU was available or
likely to be before the thing corroded away.

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the jet
exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to start
RPM and it was started and both flew away.

Some one may remember where this took place and why it had to be done
(Korea???)

They may have landed some place with no maintenance and used this
procedure to get home vs sending in a repair crew???


Whatever gets you home!

I saw something on the history channel about a pair of F 86's in whihc one
guy pushed the other over back to friendly territory after a flameout. The
flamed-out pilot got out but drowned in his shrouds.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Big John wrote in
:

Bertie

You have heard about starting a jet fighter with another jet?


Yes, I've seen it done to a stranded 707 when no GPU was available or
likely to be before the thing corroded away.

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the jet
exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to start
RPM and it was started and both flew away.

Some one may remember where this took place and why it had to be done
(Korea???)

They may have landed some place with no maintenance and used this
procedure to get home vs sending in a repair crew???


Whatever gets you home!

I saw something on the history channel about a pair of F 86's in whihc one
guy pushed the other over back to friendly territory after a flameout. The
flamed-out pilot got out but drowned in his shrouds.


Yeah, I once knew a hooker that could suck start a Harley.

"Maxwell" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Big John wrote in
:

Bertie

You have heard about starting a jet fighter with another jet?


Yes, I've seen it done to a stranded 707 when no GPU was available or
likely to be before the thing corroded away.

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the
jet exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to
start RPM and it was started and both flew away.

Some one may remember where this took place and why it had to be
done
(Korea???)

They may have landed some place with no maintenance and used this
procedure to get home vs sending in a repair crew???


Whatever gets you home!

I saw something on the history channel about a pair of F 86's in
whihc one guy pushed the other over back to friendly territory after
a flameout. The flamed-out pilot got out but drowned in his shrouds.


Yeah, I once knew a hooker that could suck start a Harley.


Good for you.



Bertie

Big John writes:

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the jet
exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to start
RPM and it was started and both flew away.

How did they keep engine temperatures within acceptable limits?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Big John writes:

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the jet
exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to start
RPM and it was started and both flew away.

How did they keep engine temperatures within acceptable limits?


You're an idiot.

Bertie

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:44:44 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Big John writes:

At least one time they lined a good jet just ahead of a bad jet
(F-86's as I remember) and forward bird ran it's engine up and the jet
exhaust down the intake of rear fighter spun the engine up to start
RPM and it was started and both flew away.

How did they keep engine temperatures within acceptable limits?


What limits?

Big John

Big John writes:

What limits?

The major operating limitation on most jet engines is temperature. If the
temperature of the engine rises too high, internal parts soften and melt. It
seems to me that blowing hot exhaust into the intake of a jet engine would
raise EGT to unacceptably high levels, resulting in engine damage.

On Nov 12, 5:03 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Big John writes:
What limits?

The major operating limitation on most jet engines is temperature. If the
temperature of the engine rises too high, internal parts soften and melt. It
seems to me that blowing hot exhaust into the intake of a jet engine would
raise EGT to unacceptably high levels, resulting in engine damage.

Wow.
I'd include
How about turbine overspeed?
Surging?

Or don't they have a turbine rating on those desktop flight sims you
play ?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Big John writes:

What limits?

The major operating limitation on most jet engines is temperature. If
the temperature of the engine rises too high, internal parts soften
and melt. It seems to me that blowing hot exhaust into the intake of
a jet engine would raise EGT to unacceptably high levels, resulting in
engine damage.



You're an idiot.

Bertie