Ferry flight a commercial op?

And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Helen wrote in
news:5zs_i.5854$VB6.2737@trnddc06:

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and
as such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA
on this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my
staff are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second
class one to ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they
volunteer their time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain
though we're OK letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just
for the simple fact that the FAA would have a hard time making a case
that a 68 year old 40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of
hobbs time as compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably
avoid the ferry duty.


I disagree. There's nothing in the FARs that says that flying time has a
value.
If you go pich up your friend's car somewhere for him it doesn't make you a
taxi driver.

Bertie

"Helen" wrote in message
news:Nbt_i.6091$VB6.694@trnddc06...
And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Thanks, Helen. A couple of thoughts:

"The FAA's position on sharing expenses is not supported by the language of
61.118(b), but pilots need to be aware of the FAA's policy. Current FAA
enforcement policy is so strict that if a private pilot ferries an airplane
at no charge, with no passengers on board, the FAA position is that the free
flying time is compensation for the private pilot, and therefore a violation
of 61.118. "
So the CFI was correct. At some point, I'd be likely to say that the FAA
could kiss my ass. As a private pilot, the risk of a 90-day suspension
isn't enough to offset the hazards of not remaining current because you
can't afford to. (As a commercially-licensed pilot with a small fraction of
the time as many of the PPL holders out here, I guess the FAA has decided
I'm more qualified to "cope with the demans of charter flying" so it's not
my problem.)

Lastly, the comment: "Private pilots can build time cheaply and safely."

I wonder what combination of prescription drugs and lack of oxygen would
prompt somebody to say something that absurd.

-c

"Gatt" wrote in
:


"Helen" wrote in message
news:Nbt_i.6091$VB6.694@trnddc06...
And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Thanks, Helen. A couple of thoughts:

"The FAA's position on sharing expenses is not supported by the
language of 61.118(b), but pilots need to be aware of the FAA's
policy. Current FAA enforcement policy is so strict that if a private
pilot ferries an airplane at no charge, with no passengers on board,
the FAA position is that the free flying time is compensation for the
private pilot, and therefore a violation of 61.118. "
So the CFI was correct. At some point, I'd be likely to say that the
FAA could kiss my ass. As a private pilot, the risk of a 90-day
suspension isn't enough to offset the hazards of not remaining current
because you can't afford to. (As a commercially-licensed pilot with a
small fraction of the time as many of the PPL holders out here, I
guess the FAA has decided I'm more qualified to "cope with the demans
of charter flying" so it's not my problem.)

Lastly, the comment: "Private pilots can build time cheaply and
safely."

I wonder what combination of prescription drugs and lack of oxygen
would prompt somebody to say something that absurd.



hear hear,


Bertie

Recently, Gatt posted:

"Helen" wrote in message
news:Nbt_i.6091$VB6.694@trnddc06...
And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Thanks, Helen. A couple of thoughts:

"The FAA's position on sharing expenses is not supported by the
language of
61.118(b), but pilots need to be aware of the FAA's policy. Current
FAA enforcement policy is so strict that if a private pilot ferries
an airplane at no charge, with no passengers on board, the FAA
position is that the free flying time is compensation for the private
pilot, and therefore a violation of 61.118. "
So the CFI was correct.

Note that the relevant condition is that the flying time is free. If the
pilot picks up the expense (possibly only 50% of the expense), then
there is no issue with this policy.

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
news
Recently, Gatt posted:

"Helen" wrote in message
news:Nbt_i.6091$VB6.694@trnddc06...
And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Thanks, Helen. A couple of thoughts:

"The FAA's position on sharing expenses is not supported by the
language of
61.118(b), but pilots need to be aware of the FAA's policy. Current
FAA enforcement policy is so strict that if a private pilot ferries
an airplane at no charge, with no passengers on board, the FAA
position is that the free flying time is compensation for the private
pilot, and therefore a violation of 61.118. "
So the CFI was correct.

Note that the relevant condition is that the flying time is free. If the
pilot picks up the expense (possibly only 50% of the expense), then
there is no issue with this policy.


That's what I'm wondering. Based only on the AOPA link, I didn't run down
the individual rulings noted:

The FAA has no policy or regulations on setting rental rates.

If I want to ferry someone's plane, they should rent it to him for a $1 an
hour.

And since I can rent a Skyhawk for $100 hour, I can charter the three empty
seats for $75 and hour.

And I can advertise either service.

Really not trying to be a smart ass, or insult anyone. It just seems there
is still a hole here you could drive a truck through, or you better have a
rental agreement on you, and well breifed passengers if you ever get ramped
checked. Because if you are a private pilot, you may have to prove you are
always paying for everything.

Recently, Maxwell posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
news
Recently, Gatt posted:

"Helen" wrote in message
news:Nbt_i.6091$VB6.694@trnddc06...
And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Thanks, Helen. A couple of thoughts:

"The FAA's position on sharing expenses is not supported by the
language of
61.118(b), but pilots need to be aware of the FAA's policy. Current
FAA enforcement policy is so strict that if a private pilot ferries
an airplane at no charge, with no passengers on board, the FAA
position is that the free flying time is compensation for the
private pilot, and therefore a violation of 61.118. "
So the CFI was correct.

Note that the relevant condition is that the flying time is free. If
the pilot picks up the expense (possibly only 50% of the expense),
then there is no issue with this policy.


That's what I'm wondering. Based only on the AOPA link, I didn't run
down the individual rulings noted:

The FAA has no policy or regulations on setting rental rates.

If I want to ferry someone's plane, they should rent it to him for a
$1 an hour.

That would be a very short ferry with fuel at current prices, not to
mention maintenance etc.

And since I can rent a Skyhawk for $100 hour, I can charter the three
empty seats for $75 and hour.

And I can advertise either service.

Really not trying to be a smart ass, or insult anyone. It just seems
there is still a hole here you could drive a truck through, or you
better have a rental agreement on you, and well breifed passengers if
you ever get ramped checked. Because if you are a private pilot, you
may have to prove you are always paying for everything.

As PP, You can not "charter 3 empty seats", period. As PP, you must pay
50% of the cost of the flight, so if that cost is set at $100/hr., you
must pay at least $51/hr. regardless of how the other $49/hr. gets picked
up. IMO, you're trying too hard to justify an activity and in doing so
making some serious misinterpretations of rules that are pretty clear.

Neil