$98 per barrel oil

Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

So is it your opinion that had the US not sworn to protect Western
Europe during the cold war the USSR would probably still not ever
attemped to take over Western Europe?

I don't know. Would the US have attempted to take over Warsaw Pact
countries if the USSR had not been protecting them?

There is no reason to think we would. On the other hand Nikita Khrushchev
said, "We will bury you!"

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
:

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

So is it your opinion that had the US not sworn to protect Western
Europe during the cold war the USSR would probably still not ever
attemped to take over Western Europe?

I don't know. Would the US have attempted to take over Warsaw Pact
countries if the USSR had not been protecting them?

Good grief.

Mx has a point. The situation was symmetrical, i.e. from their POV the
Warsaw Pact thought they were "protecting" themselves from an imminent
attack by NATO.


Really, you think so? I love revisionist history.

I don't think there is any universal consensus on this topic.

I agree. However, the number of serious historians agreeing with Jay's
view of things is really, really small.

To which view are you referring?

If you're talking about the fact that you'd probably be speaking
Russian without American intervention on Europe's behalf from 1946
through 1990, you'll have a hard time finding a legitimate historian
who would contradict me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Mx has a point. The situation was symmetrical, i.e. from their POV the
Warsaw Pact thought they were "protecting" themselves from an imminent
attack by NATO.

Really, you think so? I love revisionist history.

Apparently German schools are teaching the same type of relativistic
history ("There is no 'right' or 'wrong' -- just various shades of
gray") that American schools are starting to inflict on our kids.

Wolfgang is a free man today, and can believe whatever he wants,
precisely BECAUSE of what our parents and grandparents did for him.
Perhaps someday he'll come to understand that...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

The situation was symmetrical, i.e. from their POV the
Warsaw Pact thought they were "protecting" themselves from an
imminent attack by NATO.

Really, you think so?

See for example "Able Archer" 1983

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

It was a NATO military exercise, but the Soviets misinterpreted it as
a camouflaged preparation for a nuclear attack by the west on them!
They would never have had the idea if they'd thought the west was
merely defending itself.

I love revisionist history.

Reality isn't black and white. Both sides were wrestling with each
other for territory worldwide. There were hawks and doves on both
sides, and strategists on both sides thought of themselves as "the
better one". This is not an excuse of communist dictatorships BTW.

Regards


Yes, the Reagan administration did an excellent job of screwing with the
USSR's head. It one of the reasons there is no longer a wall dividing your
country and no longer a USSR.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

The situation was symmetrical, i.e. from their POV the
Warsaw Pact thought they were "protecting" themselves from an
imminent attack by NATO.

Really, you think so?

See for example "Able Archer" 1983

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

It was a NATO military exercise, but the Soviets misinterpreted it as
a camouflaged preparation for a nuclear attack by the west on them!
They would never have had the idea if they'd thought the west was
merely defending itself.

I love revisionist history.

Reality isn't black and white. Both sides were wrestling with each
other for territory worldwide. There were hawks and doves on both
sides, and strategists on both sides thought of themselves as "the
better one". This is not an excuse of communist dictatorships BTW.

Regards


Yes, the Reagan administration did an excellent job of screwing with
the USSR's head. It one of the reasons there is no longer a wall
dividing your country and no longer a USSR.


No, it isn't.



Bertie

Jay Honeck wrote in news:d431b036-54a3-490f-a671-
:

I don't think there is any universal consensus on this topic.

I agree. However, the number of serious historians agreeing with Jay's
view of things is really, really small.

To which view are you referring?

If you're talking about the fact that you'd probably be speaking
Russian without American intervention on Europe's behalf from 1946
through 1990, you'll have a hard time finding a legitimate historian
who would contradict me.



Really?


The Poles didn't speak Russian. The Czechs didn't, the east germans didn't,
the Lithuanians didn't, the Magyars didn't, the Rumanians didn't....

OTOH you're speaking a *******ised, gutteral, german dialect that was
shoved down the necks of half the planet by the Brits at the point of a
blade and is being shoved down the rest of the planets neck via t-shirts
and McDonalds.


Bertie

Jay,

Apparently German schools are teaching the same type of relativistic
history ("There is no 'right' or 'wrong' -- just various shades of
gray") that American schools are starting to inflict on our kids.


And how, pray, tell, would you know?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I like this part best:

Gig 601XL Builder :

"So is it your opinion ......?"

MX:

"I don't know."

He doesn't even know his opinion.


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
:

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

So is it your opinion that had the US not sworn to protect Western
Europe during the cold war the USSR would probably still not ever
attemped to take over Western Europe?

I don't know. Would the US have attempted to take over Warsaw Pact
countries if the USSR had not been protecting them?

Good grief.

Mx has a point. The situation was symmetrical, i.e. from their POV the
Warsaw Pact thought they were "protecting" themselves from an imminent
attack by NATO.



Problem is, none of his points come from anywhere but Wikipedia.

His "viewpoint" is pretty meaningless considering it's viewed through his
rectum.



Bertie

The Poles didn't speak Russian. The Czechs didn't, the east germans didn't,
the Lithuanians didn't, the Magyars didn't, the Rumanians didn't....

Gosh, Bertie -- I *know* you're a proud troll, but couldn't you just
once pretend to catch the drift of something without being
bludgeoned?

*sigh* I suppose not.

"Speaking Russian" is a euphemism for "Being in the sphere of the
Soviet Union." In the old days we would have used Churchill's more
flowery prose, and called it "Behind the Iron Curtain"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"