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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Yeah,every once in a while I learn something that is so big and so
fundamental that it frightens me that I'd been flying around in
ignorance of it for so long and worse, makes me wonder what else I might
be flying around not knowing..

It's amazing the crap we all pull off while flying without killing
ourselves. I should have been dead years ago with some of the boners
I've pulled off in my life :-))



Yeah, not many left now. A buddy of mine nearly bought one with his
brother when they were both fairly young, but they walked away from it
because of the daunting task of rebuidling the wing. The friend of my
dad's from the story had sold his by the time I'd gotten into his
neighbothood, but I did get a ride in his Apache. My first in a light
twin.

Bertie

Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running, but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Yeah,every once in a while I learn something that is so big and so
fundamental that it frightens me that I'd been flying around in
ignorance of it for so long and worse, makes me wonder what else I
might be flying around not knowing..

It's amazing the crap we all pull off while flying without killing
ourselves. I should have been dead years ago with some of the boners
I've pulled off in my life :-))



Yeah, not many left now. A buddy of mine nearly bought one with his
brother when they were both fairly young, but they walked away from
it because of the daunting task of rebuidling the wing. The friend of
my dad's from the story had sold his by the time I'd gotten into his
neighbothood, but I did get a ride in his Apache. My first in a light
twin.

Bertie

Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running, but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))




What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
For instance, if you got a failure on the left,( I think, it;s been a
while) during takeoff and you had to go, you had to pump the gear up
manually. If you lost the left whilst going around, you also had to get
the flaps up using the same hand pump. So, the pocedure was to quickly
select the flaps first so they would blow up due to aerodynamic load and
save you the trouble, then start pumping like hell to get the gear up.
You had already caged the engine, of course.
A VMC roll was very progressive, and if you were doing those at altitude
you could let them develop well past the point you could with any other
light twin I know of and even if it rolled over on you it was entirely
recoverable.
During my own MEI checkride the FAA inspector wasn't happy with my VMC
demos. They weren't agressive enough to suit him. We were doing these
relatively low, BTW, due to overcast. He took it form me and suggested
that I had to really show the student what a divergence was all about.
Long story short he got it wrong and we did about 3/4 turn before we
recovered. That wouldn't have been a happy ending in a Twin Commanche.

I remember reading that Cessna's chief test pilot was demonstrating the
T-50 Bobcat to the FAA for certification. He went through all the
manuevers required for the inspector and after the tests were all done,
casually mentioned that he didn't have a multi-engine rating and could
the inspector sign him off fo one. The inspector went nuts, but
eventually decided that the guy hadn't actually violated any rules
technically, and that the three days of flight testing had actually been
a pretty good flight test, so he obliged...

Oh, and Larry, before you start looking to get the guys prosecuted, this
would have been in 1940 or so when the rules were different and they're
both prolly dead anyway..
..



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Bertie
Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running, but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))




What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.

I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues below
VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Bertie
Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))




What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that
you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.

I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
below
VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))


Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while back,
of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much better,
really, and the apache was so docile.....
Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an Aztec
a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310 would have
ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for instance, even
though it went up better on one at training weights. Likewise the Baron
and just about anything else I can think of.
I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during a
VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned. Ugh,
getting nauseous just thinking about it.


#Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Bertie
Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))



What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that
you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
below
VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))


Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while back,
of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much better,
really, and the apache was so docile.....
Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an Aztec
a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310 would have
ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for instance, even
though it went up better on one at training weights. Likewise the Baron
and just about anything else I can think of.
I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during a
VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned. Ugh,
getting nauseous just thinking about it.


#Bertie



Most all of my professional flying was done in singles. Believe it or
not, I think I might be the only idiot lest alive who tested in a 337
and got one of those stupid centerline thrust ratings :-)) We had one
for charter and I had to get rated in it to use it. I have a lot of time
flying multi-engine airplanes but never was rated for them; just way too
much involved in instructing in high performance singles I guess.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Bertie
Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))



What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably
the safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin
ever certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was
that
you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than
any other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
below
VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))


Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while
back, of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much
better, really, and the apache was so docile.....
Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an
Aztec a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310
would have ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for
instance, even though it went up better on one at training weights.
Likewise the Baron and just about anything else I can think of.
I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during
a VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned.
Ugh, getting nauseous just thinking about it.


#Bertie



Most all of my professional flying was done in singles. Believe it or
not, I think I might be the only idiot lest alive who tested in a 337
and got one of those stupid centerline thrust ratings :-)) We had one
for charter and I had to get rated in it to use it. I have a lot of
time flying multi-engine airplanes but never was rated for them; just
way too much involved in instructing in high performance singles I
guess.


Now that's an odd logbook allright!


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Bertie
Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))


What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably
the safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin
ever certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was
that
you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than
any other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
below
VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))

Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while
back, of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much
better, really, and the apache was so docile.....
Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an
Aztec a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310
would have ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for
instance, even though it went up better on one at training weights.
Likewise the Baron and just about anything else I can think of.
I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during
a VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned.
Ugh, getting nauseous just thinking about it.


#Bertie
Most all of my professional flying was done in singles. Believe it or
not, I think I might be the only idiot lest alive who tested in a 337
and got one of those stupid centerline thrust ratings :-)) We had one
for charter and I had to get rated in it to use it. I have a lot of
time flying multi-engine airplanes but never was rated for them; just
way too much involved in instructing in high performance singles I
guess.


Now that's an odd logbook allright!


Bertie

Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy charter.
I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds, acro, and acro
instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-) individuals with
their own airplanes.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:




Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy charter.
I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds, acro, and acro
instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-) individuals with
their own airplanes.


I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in their
own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the autopilot is on
most of the time.



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:



Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy charter.
I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds, acro, and acro
instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-) individuals with
their own airplanes.


I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in their
own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the autopilot is on
most of the time.



Bertie

I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to fly
more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly myself.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:



Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy
charter. I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds,
acro, and acro instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-)
individuals with their own airplanes.


I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in
their own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the
autopilot is on most of the time.



Bertie

I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to fly
more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly
myself.



You were!

Of course, you'd flown them before courtesy of uncle sam..

Did you know Gordon Van Kowneberg, BTW?

Bertie