Hey Dudley, detailed analysis of these?

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4_iJ...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN1lC...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9txDhi5wC2A

Have my own notions, but would be interested from a pros viewpoint. I'm
assuming that mechanical was not a factor in any of these, BTW.Might have
been, but it appears that in each case the pilot went in with no commital
gates and no escape route. Bertie

Can't say much about the Extra (at least it looked like an Extra) but the
Hurricane and the King Cobra are accidents I've been involved in with
safety discussions within the war bird demonstration community.

To me, the KC accident looked like the result of a way too low energy
state going through the top gate. He should have had at least 150
indicated inverted on top but it looked like he lost his energy to drag
going up the up line by pulling too much g. He was practically dead in the
water on top but apparently at fairly high power. This looked like it
torqued him in roll pretty good and he lost it coming through the gate. He
recovered as the angle of attack narrowed back into the work range but by
then he was committed way too nose low and had no radial g available to
affect the recovery.

What was his "out" once he was inverted and slow?

I assume the proper recovery is to pull back the power to a manageable
level, unload the airplane, and get the nose below the horizon in order to
build some airspeed. Once the airplane is flying again, feed in the power
while rolling level, then pull...



The Hurricane looks like it will come down to a simple brain fart. The guy
was very qualified and had experience. So far it looks like he simply
committed to a Split S below his minimum AGL parameter for the Hurricane.
This one is very similar to the Thunderbird F16 accident at Mountain Home
AFB where the team lost a Viper. Brain fart!


--
Dudley Henriques

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in
:




What was his "out" once he was inverted and slow?

I assume the proper recovery is to pull back the power to a manageable
level, unload the airplane, and get the nose below the horizon in
order to build some airspeed. Once the airplane is flying again, feed
in the power while rolling level, then pull...



Yeah, exactly. Can't see any other way out at the top, but I would have
thought he should have recognised the mess a lot earlier, i.e., at or
before reaching 90deg.
Looks like he was braving it out for the benefit of the crowd.

A bit like this guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzjLxqHy5g

The show must go on, huh?

Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in
:




What was his "out" once he was inverted and slow?

I assume the proper recovery is to pull back the power to a manageable
level, unload the airplane, and get the nose below the horizon in
order to build some airspeed. Once the airplane is flying again, feed
in the power while rolling level, then pull...



Yeah, exactly. Can't see any other way out at the top, but I would have
thought he should have recognised the mess a lot earlier, i.e., at or
before reaching 90deg.
Looks like he was braving it out for the benefit of the crowd.

A bit like this guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzjLxqHy5g

The show must go on, huh?

Bertie

The strange thing about the Yak near-pancake is that the guy comes over the
top with plenty of airspeed, gets the nose down, and then doesn't pull
enough G's until very late when he's past the vertical. Another quarter or
half G after he'd gotten the nose down and he wouldn't have had a memorable
recovery.

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in
:




What was his "out" once he was inverted and slow?

I assume the proper recovery is to pull back the power to a
manageable level, unload the airplane, and get the nose below the
horizon in order to build some airspeed. Once the airplane is flying
again, feed in the power while rolling level, then pull...



Yeah, exactly. Can't see any other way out at the top, but I would
have thought he should have recognised the mess a lot earlier, i.e.,
at or before reaching 90deg.
Looks like he was braving it out for the benefit of the crowd.

A bit like this guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzjLxqHy5g

The show must go on, huh?

Bertie

The strange thing about the Yak near-pancake is that the guy comes
over the top with plenty of airspeed, gets the nose down, and then
doesn't pull enough G's until very late when he's past the vertical.
Another quarter or half G after he'd gotten the nose down and he
wouldn't have had a memorable recovery.



Yes, well that;'s all in the name of getting it close enough to make it
spectacular for the crowd of course.

This guy was less lucky..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifoHKZw_JQs



Bertie

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in
:



What was his "out" once he was inverted and slow?

I assume the proper recovery is to pull back the power to a manageable
level, unload the airplane, and get the nose below the horizon in
order to build some airspeed. Once the airplane is flying again, feed
in the power while rolling level, then pull...


Yeah, exactly. Can't see any other way out at the top, but I would have
thought he should have recognised the mess a lot earlier, i.e., at or
before reaching 90deg.
Looks like he was braving it out for the benefit of the crowd.

A bit like this guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzjLxqHy5g

The show must go on, huh?

Bertie

The strange thing about the Yak near-pancake is that the guy comes over the
top with plenty of airspeed, gets the nose down, and then doesn't pull
enough G's until very late when he's past the vertical. Another quarter or
half G after he'd gotten the nose down and he wouldn't have had a memorable
recovery.

KB


This is why the top gate is so important. You only have so much g you
can pull on the back side depending on the altitude and airspeed you
have when you initiate the down line. Pull too hard and you take the
airplane into drag rise then into high speed stall. Even into drag rise
you can have so much g on the airplane it denies you recovery room.
The Yak clip has been widely distributed in the Warbird community. The
truth is it just doesn't get any closer than this guy had it with a walk
away in your future.
DH

--
Dudley Henriques