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Unusual engine



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 19th 07, 06:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Darkwing
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Posts: 604
Default Unusual engine


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote in
:


"Matthew Speed" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:00:26 +0100, Stefan
wrote:

I've just stumbled over this picture. Does anybody know what kind of
engine this is?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0537804&size=M

Looking at that picture it seems to me that it would much easier to
damage that engine with the blades exposed like that. Given the rate
at which turbine engines rotate wouldn't the engine be subjected to
extreme stresses if one of the blades were to be damaged?


I was always told that the engine on a prop plane would probably get
ripped out of the mounts if a prop lost a blade so I don't think it is
good on any engine!




It will. one of the guys in my EAA chapter lost a blade on his Tailwind.
The prop was an "experimental" McCauley clip tip prop IIRC. The mounts
broke completely, but the cowling, throttle cable and what not kept the
engine on board. He deadsticked back to the field. The Navy called up
asking f anyone owned the blade later that day. it had landed in
someones back yard just missing the lady of the house as she was hanginr
her laundry!
It's happened many times over the years, in fact. There was one in
england where the engine on a Navajo shed a blade, the engine came off,
and the engine went over the top of the fuselage and took out the second
engine. the guy succesfully deadsticked the airplane into a field..



Bertie




I was told that if the engine came out that you would probably be so far out
of CG you would crash tail first. So that surprises me that the Navajo made
it down under control.


  #12  
Old November 19th 07, 06:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
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Posts: 3,851
Default Unusual engine

"Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote in
:


"Matthew Speed" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:00:26 +0100, Stefan
wrote:

I've just stumbled over this picture. Does anybody know what kind
of engine this is?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0537804&size=M

Looking at that picture it seems to me that it would much easier to
damage that engine with the blades exposed like that. Given the
rate at which turbine engines rotate wouldn't the engine be
subjected to extreme stresses if one of the blades were to be
damaged?

I was always told that the engine on a prop plane would probably get
ripped out of the mounts if a prop lost a blade so I don't think it
is good on any engine!




It will. one of the guys in my EAA chapter lost a blade on his
Tailwind. The prop was an "experimental" McCauley clip tip prop IIRC.
The mounts broke completely, but the cowling, throttle cable and what
not kept the engine on board. He deadsticked back to the field. The
Navy called up asking f anyone owned the blade later that day. it had
landed in someones back yard just missing the lady of the house as
she was hanginr her laundry!
It's happened many times over the years, in fact. There was one in
england where the engine on a Navajo shed a blade, the engine came
off, and the engine went over the top of the fuselage and took out
the second engine. the guy succesfully deadsticked the airplane into
a field..



Bertie




I was told that if the engine came out that you would probably be so
far out of CG you would crash tail first. So that surprises me that
the Navajo made it down under control.



Well, only one of them came off. the other just quit.
You're right, though .On a single you would have little chance. There
was a Stearman that the engine came off of and they did make it, or so
the story went.
The Navajo wasn't all that long ago. there must be some pics somewhere.


Bertie


  #13  
Old November 19th 07, 11:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Rich Ahrens[_2_]
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Posts: 404
Default Unusual engine

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Stefan wrote in news:156cb$4740457b$54487377
:

I've just stumbled over this picture. Does anybody know what kind of
engine this is?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0537804&size=M


Yeah, it's the GE unducted fan from the late eighties. The idea was to make
an engine that was more fuel effecient and quiter. AFAIK it was neither.
The props were slightly supersonic and very noisy. A friend of mine saw it
at an airshow around then adn thought it sounded like a Mustang.


I never got to see (or hear) it, but it was featured prominently on
company calendars when I worked at McDonnell Douglas. That same
airframe, earlier in its life, stars in a piece of video floating around
the web. A hard landing in a flight test caused the entire empennage to
break off. Here's a copy of the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUUcxEOniz8
  #14  
Old November 20th 07, 01:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Unusual engine

G.E. Unducted Fan. Bottom line: it worked well but was too noisy. Read
about it he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE-36


I seem to remember reading that it was so loud, that the ground crew was
near physical nausea from the level and nature of the sound.
--
Jim in NC


  #15  
Old November 20th 07, 01:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Unusual engine


"Dave" wrote

G.E. Unducted Fan. Bottom line: it worked well but was too noisy. Read
about it he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE-36


As far as the working well, the link you provided said it had very poor
efficiency.
--
Jim in NC


  #16  
Old November 20th 07, 03:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Unusual engine

--------much snipped---------



I was told that if the engine came out that you would probably be so
far out of CG you would crash tail first. So that surprises me that
the Navajo made it down under control.



Well, only one of them came off. the other just quit.
You're right, though .On a single you would have little chance. There
was a Stearman that the engine came off of and they did make it, or so
the story went.
The Navajo wasn't all that long ago. there must be some pics somewhere.


Bertie


I heard of a similar and long ago case in which the engine came off of a
"bathtub" Aeronca and the pilot managed to land it safely.

I suppose that the Aeronca would have been the easiest of them, but it's
still high up on the list of places and times that I am glad to have been
absent. I don't even want to think about the other two!

Peter



  #17  
Old November 20th 07, 03:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
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Posts: 3,851
Default Unusual engine

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

--------much snipped---------



I was told that if the engine came out that you would probably be so
far out of CG you would crash tail first. So that surprises me that
the Navajo made it down under control.



Well, only one of them came off. the other just quit.
You're right, though .On a single you would have little chance. There
was a Stearman that the engine came off of and they did make it, or
so the story went.
The Navajo wasn't all that long ago. there must be some pics
somewhere.


Bertie


I heard of a similar and long ago case in which the engine came off of
a "bathtub" Aeronca and the pilot managed to land it safely.

I suppose that the Aeronca would have been the easiest of them, but
it's still high up on the list of places and times that I am glad to
have been absent. I don't even want to think about the other two!


Well, the Aeronca probably floated down like a sycamore leaf!
It's gross was well under 1,000lb IIRC and the wing loading was very
low. They probably weren't under any kind of control to speak of..

Bertie

  #18  
Old November 20th 07, 03:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Maxwell
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Posts: 1,116
Default Unusual engine


"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...

I heard of a similar and long ago case in which the engine came off of a
"bathtub" Aeronca and the pilot managed to land it safely.

I suppose that the Aeronca would have been the easiest of them, but it's
still high up on the list of places and times that I am glad to have been
absent. I don't even want to think about the other two!


I remember a story, long ago, I believe in Flying magazine. Where I think a
training flight was involved in a mid-air. IIRC, it was a Cessna that lost a
very large amount of the left wing. I'm thinking to the strut, but maybe
just to the end of the aileron.

At any rate, the instructor immediately dove the aircraft for airspeed and
returned a short distance to the airport maintaining an airspeed of 140
knots plus, and full control deflection, and managed to land the aircraft.

Been a very long time, so I probably have many of the details wrong, but
perhaps someone else will remember as well. Anyone?



  #19  
Old November 20th 07, 03:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Unusual engine


"Darkwing" wrote

I was always told that the engine on a prop plane would probably get
ripped out of the mounts if a prop lost a blade so I don't think it is
good on any engine!


I think it's clear that it does happen, but it is also true that many
engines lose prop blades, and the engine stays with the airplane. I'll bet
many more stay, than depart.
--
Jim in NC


  #20  
Old November 20th 07, 04:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
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Posts: 3,851
Default Unusual engine

"Maxwell" wrote in
:


"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...

I heard of a similar and long ago case in which the engine came off
of a "bathtub" Aeronca and the pilot managed to land it safely.

I suppose that the Aeronca would have been the easiest of them, but
it's still high up on the list of places and times that I am glad to
have been absent. I don't even want to think about the other two!


I remember a story, long ago, I believe in Flying magazine. Where I
think a training flight was involved in a mid-air. IIRC, it was a
Cessna that lost a very large amount of the left wing. I'm thinking to
the strut, but maybe just to the end of the aileron.

At any rate, the instructor immediately dove the aircraft for airspeed
and returned a short distance to the airport maintaining an airspeed
of 140 knots plus, and full control deflection, and managed to land
the aircraft.

Been a very long time, so I probably have many of the details wrong,
but perhaps someone else will remember as well. Anyone?




Probably happened a few times, but it happened to a guy I used to work for,
in Detroit City. His name was Chuck Weldon and he collided with a police
helicopter over the detroit river while he was on the ILS and in IMC. the
chopper was scud running up the river and it went in killing both cops.
Chuck lost the left wing outside of the left nacelle, the left fin and much
of the left stab. He firewalled the left engine and brought the right one
back and managed to do a skewed sort of approach and crash onto the
airport. they both walked away from it, but were arrested for manslaughter
and it actually went to trial! He got off, obviously ( the way he told it
it was just a rabid reaction by the Detroit Police, which is believable)
and he spent the next six months in court suing them for the loss of his
airplane, which he also won.
While this was going on, two of his other airplanes crashed on the same
night! One in Cleveland and one in Detroit. I think it was the one in
detroit where they accidentally switched off both mags with the crash
switch instead of turning on the heater at rotation. They went through two
houses but survived. The captain even went back to flying again after being
in a coma for six weeks.
They;re gone now, but they were known as Flight Express Cargo Chuck had
been one of the original FedEx pilots way back and had gone off on his own
to make his fortune with Flight Express. I think we had eight accidents,
Three of which were Chucks.
They were all in rhe mid to late 70s for thos morbid sorts that like to
look up stuff in databases.

Bertie


 




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