Should We Bomb Syria and Iran?

(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...

The German Tito raid was carried out by the SS Parachute Battalion 500
which was mostly a low morale penal unit. Yugoslavia with its rugged
mountails and poor rail & communications structure also made it an
excellent partisan stronghold.

You fail to mention that a large number of Tito's partisans were
killed in the assault

That is a myth invented by the Germans. Tito's partisans suffered
light casualties. The slow-witted SS paratroops had plenty of help
from a mountain division and other Nazi units, but they were no match
for the partisans.

In general, the Germans were not very good at counterguerrilla warfare.



Tito himself was almost caught.


Almost doesn't count.

If you want to see a job done better, look at the US special forces
operation against the guerrilla chief Che Guevera. They assisted the
Bolivian patrol who killed the bugger. Intended as a slap in the face
to Castro.


the Germans DID rescue/recapture Mussolini from Gran Sasso...


Only because there was no significant opposition.

If there was, you would see a repeat of the slaughter that visited
German troops and their stooges around Tito's headquarters.

(Evan Brennan) wrote in message om...
(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...

The German Tito raid was carried out by the SS Parachute Battalion 500
which was mostly a low morale penal unit. Yugoslavia with its rugged
mountails and poor rail & communications structure also made it an
excellent partisan stronghold.

You fail to mention that a large number of Tito's partisans were
killed in the assault

That is a myth invented by the Germans. Tito's partisans suffered
light casualties. The slow-witted SS paratroops had plenty of help
from a mountain division and other Nazi units, but they were no match
for the partisans.

In general, the Germans were not very good at counterguerrilla warfare.



Tito himself was almost caught.


Almost doesn't count.

If you want to see a job done better, look at the US special forces
operation against the guerrilla chief Che Guevera. They assisted the
Bolivian patrol who killed the bugger. Intended as a slap in the face
to Castro.


the Germans DID rescue/recapture Mussolini from Gran Sasso...


Only because there was no significant opposition.

If there was, you would see a repeat of the slaughter that visited
German troops and their stooges around Tito's headquarters.

Here is a site that tells about the battle

http://www.eliteforces.freewire.co.u...es/FAL_500.htm

Most of my history books on WW2 say that Marshall Tito barely escaped
with his life, so IMO the Germans didn't do any worse than the current
US Special Forces that were searching for Osama Bin Laden or Saddam
Hussein. Same situtation in both Afghanistan and Iraq with resistance.

I would also have to agree that the terrain in Yugoslavia favored the
defenders as the Germans didn't control most of the countryside
anyway. However, the Germans did kill many partisans in constant
reprisal raids even though they were tied down in the country.

Kenneth Williams

(Kenneth Williams) wrote in message om...

IMO the Germans didn't do any worse than the current
US Special Forces that were searching for Osama Bin Laden or Saddam
Hussein. Same situtation in both Afghanistan and Iraq with resistance.


The current British , Australian and German special forces didn't have any
luck finding Bin Laden either.


I would also have to agree that the terrain in Yugoslavia favored the
defenders as the Germans didn't control most of the countryside
anyway. However, the Germans did kill many partisans in constant
reprisal raids even though they were tied down in the country.


The Germans were losing the war against partisans all along. The
Nazis and their Allies suffered enormous casualties and were no
closer to winning when they bugged out.

On or about 20 Oct 2003 12:45:01 -0700,
(Evan Brennan) allegedly uttered:

(Kenneth Williams) wrote in message om...

IMO the Germans didn't do any worse than the current
US Special Forces that were searching for Osama Bin Laden or Saddam
Hussein. Same situtation in both Afghanistan and Iraq with resistance.


The current British , Australian and German special forces didn't have any
luck finding Bin Laden either.

Probably because they were not tasked with it. IIRC they were deployed
on counter-Taliban tasking in Afghanistan, and the tales from Iraq
have not yet emerged excepting the role the Aussies played in securing
some stuff out West, not the kind of high value target search you're
talking about.


---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - Drink Faster

Peter Kemp peter_n_kempathotmaildotcom@ wrote in message . ..
On or about 20 Oct 2003 12:45:01 -0700,
(Evan Brennan) allegedly uttered:

(Kenneth Williams) wrote in message om...

IMO the Germans didn't do any worse than the current
US Special Forces that were searching for Osama Bin Laden or Saddam
Hussein. Same situtation in both Afghanistan and Iraq with resistance.


The current British , Australian and German special forces didn't have any
luck finding Bin Laden either.

Probably because they were not tasked with it. IIRC they were deployed
on counter-Taliban tasking in Afghanistan, and the tales from Iraq
have not yet emerged excepting the role the Aussies played in securing
some stuff out West, not the kind of high value target search you're
talking about.


---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - Drink Faster

Close to 200 German KSK were operating with US Special Forces in
covert cross border raids into Pakistan, hunting the Taliban. This is
one of the things Schroeder was opposed to. Since the KSK were under
US command, neither Schroeder nor his defense minister were kept
up-to-date with where the KSK was operating or what they were doing.
This had to influence Schroeder's decision not to send German troops
to Iraq and break his vow of support to President Bush.

Rob

robert arndt wrote:


Close to 200 German KSK were operating with US Special Forces in
covert cross border raids into Pakistan, hunting the Taliban. This is
one of the things Schroeder was opposed to. Since the KSK were under
US command, neither Schroeder nor his defense minister were kept
up-to-date with where the KSK was operating or what they were doing.
This had to influence Schroeder's decision not to send German troops
to Iraq and break his vow of support to President Bush.

Rob

You mean that the german military either omitted information or just
never bothered to tell their own govt, that they were doing cross-borders ?

Man that has to tell you something about the german govt.

Declan O'Reilly

Peter Kemp peter_n_kempathotmaildotcom@ wrote in message . ..
On or about 20 Oct 2003 12:45:01 -0700,
(Evan Brennan) allegedly uttered:

(Kenneth Williams) wrote in message om...

IMO the Germans didn't do any worse than the current
US Special Forces that were searching for Osama Bin Laden or Saddam
Hussein. Same situtation in both Afghanistan and Iraq with resistance.


The current British , Australian and German special forces didn't have any
luck finding Bin Laden either.

Probably because they were not tasked with it. IIRC they were deployed
on counter-Taliban tasking in Afghanistan, and the tales from Iraq
have not yet emerged excepting the role the Aussies played in securing
some stuff out West, not the kind of high value target search you're
talking about.


Nice piece of revisionism Kemp. Next you'll tell us the British SAS
wasn't tasked with their now-discredited Scud Hunt in 1991.

For several months the British and Australian SAS were searching caves
in Afghanistan, and specifically looking for al Qaeda members of any rank.