Professionally built?

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my second
RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally Built" since I
will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Nov 27, 12:32 pm, es330td wrote:

I searched controller.com for lancair and found an entry that says
"Professionally built." Now I know that a homebuilt owner does not
have to build the entire thing themself but I thought it still had to
be an amateur undertaking. How does this pass muster with the FAA?


"Professionally Built" isn't a problem for Experimental aircraft. Many
aircraft were so built and subequently issued Experimental Racing and
Experimental Exhibition special airworthiness certificates.

However, it can be a big problem for an aircraft issued an
Experimental Amateur-Built special airworthiness certificate. The
rules are pretty clear that the major part of such aircraft are to be
constructed by folks who undertook the work solely for the purposes of
education and entertainment, that is, without money changing hands.
The word "Professional" implies here, as it does in the sports world,
financial transactions that likely violate the spirit if not the
letter of the Amateur-Built rules.

In at least one prior case, the FAA has moved a non-"51% rule"
aircraft out of Amateur-Built and into Racing or Exhibition. While
this is a relative non-issue for a glider or a single-seat acro
airplane, the additional operating limitations and Program Letter
requirements can put a huge onerous kink in your plans for a four-seat
cruiser.

Checking the controller.com site, I find not one but three Lancairs
that claim "professional construction," and at least one of those
lists a corporate entity as the manufacturer. Hopefully it's a non-
profit corporation...

I'm thinking that the sellers might be folks who haven't observed that
the FAA seems to have been cracking down on hired gunmanship, and that
they seem to be using sport aviation publications and circulars to do
it.

Thanks, Bob K.

--

Scott wrote:
The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my second
RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally Built" since
I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.


I don't know if I'd do that. It seems that it should be just a matter of
time until somebody at FAA get's a hair up their ass and sends down a memo
to all the FSDOs to investigate all such claims. Not that you would be in
violation of the law but why stir the pot?

I wouldn't sweat the Feds in this case since I would have my builder's
log and a couple of reams worth of photos taken during construction, so
it meets amateur built rules, but like was noted by somebody else, it
would be built to "professional" standards

Scott


Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Scott wrote:

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my second
RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally Built" since
I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.



I don't know if I'd do that. It seems that it should be just a matter of
time until somebody at FAA get's a hair up their ass and sends down a memo
to all the FSDOs to investigate all such claims. Not that you would be in
violation of the law but why stir the pot?



--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:55:55 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I wouldn't sweat the Feds in this case since I would have my builder's
log and a couple of reams worth of photos taken during construction, so
it meets amateur built rules, but like was noted by somebody else, it
would be built to "professional" standards

I'm building my own because I want'd something better than that.:-))
Professionaly built would included Cessnas, Pipers, etc...

Roger (K8RI)


Scott


Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Scott wrote:

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my second
RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally Built" since
I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.



I don't know if I'd do that. It seems that it should be just a matter of
time until somebody at FAA get's a hair up their ass and sends down a memo
to all the FSDOs to investigate all such claims. Not that you would be in
violation of the law but why stir the pot?

Scott wrote:
The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my second
RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally Built" since I
will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)


Actualy, (in the olde days) that would diswualify you from being able
to license or sell the second one.

It makes you a "manufacturer".

All amateur builders are considered "manufacturers" in the eyes of the
FAA. That's why there's never been an AD on a Van's RV-4 built by
someone other than Van...they are registered as Nelson RV-4, Smith RV-4,
etc. (glad I don't have a common name like Nelson or Smith!!)

Scott


cavelamb himself wrote:

Scott wrote:

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my second
RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally Built" since
I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)


Actualy, (in the olde days) that would diswualify you from being able
to license or sell the second one.

It makes you a "manufacturer".

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

Scott wrote:
All amateur builders are considered "manufacturers" in the eyes of the
FAA. That's why there's never been an AD on a Van's RV-4 built by
someone other than Van...they are registered as Nelson RV-4, Smith RV-4,
etc. (glad I don't have a common name like Nelson or Smith!!)

Scott


Of course, but they used to make a very sharp distinction here.

You would not have been allowed to register the second copy as
experimental - amateur built.

Richard




cavelamb himself wrote:

Scott wrote:

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my
second RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally
Built" since I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)


Actualy, (in the olde days) that would diswualify you from being able
to license or sell the second one.

It makes you a "manufacturer".

Hmmm...I wasn't aware of THAT! You say in the "old days"...has that
been reversed? On my promo tape from Van's they mention a guy (John
Harmon, I believe) has built 3 RV-3s and an RV-4. I would have to
assume all were registered in experimental amateur built category???
How does (or did) the FAA regulate how many planes a guy built of the
"same" model? For example, what if I register my 2nd RV-4 as a
Fliegenmeister 4-VR? Interesting topic!

Scott


cavelamb himself wrote:
Scott wrote:

All amateur builders are considered "manufacturers" in the eyes of the
FAA. That's why there's never been an AD on a Van's RV-4 built by
someone other than Van...they are registered as Nelson RV-4, Smith
RV-4, etc. (glad I don't have a common name like Nelson or Smith!!)

Scott


Of course, but they used to make a very sharp distinction here.

You would not have been allowed to register the second copy as
experimental - amateur built.

Richard




cavelamb himself wrote:

Scott wrote:

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my
second RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally
Built" since I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)


Actualy, (in the olde days) that would diswualify you from being able
to license or sell the second one.

It makes you a "manufacturer".




--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

Scott wrote:
Hmmm...I wasn't aware of THAT! You say in the "old days"...has that
been reversed? On my promo tape from Van's they mention a guy (John
Harmon, I believe) has built 3 RV-3s and an RV-4. I would have to
assume all were registered in experimental amateur built category??? How
does (or did) the FAA regulate how many planes a guy built of the "same"
model? For example, what if I register my 2nd RV-4 as a Fliegenmeister
4-VR? Interesting topic!

Scott


I wouldn't say they have officially reversed anything.

FAA has just gotten out of the business of amateur built airplanes.
They don't inspect them anymore, but USED to very agressively.
"Before closing" inspections and sign-offs were required before any
structure (spars, wings, taile, etc) could be "closed out".

Things have relaxed quite a bit.

Richard


cavelamb himself wrote:

Scott wrote:

All amateur builders are considered "manufacturers" in the eyes of
the FAA. That's why there's never been an AD on a Van's RV-4 built
by someone other than Van...they are registered as Nelson RV-4, Smith
RV-4, etc. (glad I don't have a common name like Nelson or Smith!!)

Scott


Of course, but they used to make a very sharp distinction here.

You would not have been allowed to register the second copy as
experimental - amateur built.

Richard




cavelamb himself wrote:

Scott wrote:

The word "professionally" can be pretty vague. When I build my
second RV-4, I will sell it in Trade A Plane as "Professionally
Built" since I will be a "pro" at it having built one previously.

Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)


Actualy, (in the olde days) that would diswualify you from being able
to license or sell the second one.

It makes you a "manufacturer".