Pegasus or ....?

my 2 cents:

Pegasus is a very good choice.

Excellent performance for the money.

Pegasus is very typical of gliders of the late 70's mid 80's performance
More deluxe than ASW19/20 with finished interior, lifting instrument panel
like last ASW20 models offered, having owned (2)Pegasus, ASW19 and ASW20,
and ASW20C would say they all handled and performed essentially the same..
obvious differences were flaps on 20's, Quality was similar, some better and
worse on each.


It doesn't have any bad habits.

Well, keeping wings level in the early part of the takeoff run can be a
bit of a challenge, especially in even the lightest crosswind. It also
tends to drop the nose pretty dramatically and abruptly if you let speed
bleed off in a slip. Otherwise I find it to be a very honest and
relatively docile aircraft. Handling is excellent with very sensitive
response in pitch and yaw (roll is a bit less enthusiastic, as is typical
for this type of aircraft). Be prepared for some moderate PIO on the first
takeoff or two. Assembly is very straightforward assuming spring-loaded
sleeves have been retrofitted to aileron and spoiler connections,
otherwise pinning these connections can be awkward. A sleeve can not be
added to the elevator connection due to lack of space, but this connection
is exposed enough that using a safety pin is not a problem.


worst bad habit if you could call it that is manual hook-ups and lack of
access...very difficult to verify safe control connections....assembly is
slow and very unfriendly by comparison to better designs.

Flying was not difficult or unusual....I never noticed any unusual or
exciting take-offs in any of these, though I did with earlier ASW15's with
offset CG hook....now those need attention! I do have a fair amont of glider
experience though and may not recommend these gliders to lower time pilots
since like any more-or-less modern racing gliders do things more quickly and
less noticeable than club type gliders....all of these (ASW19/20/Pegasus)
gliders can catch the sloppy flyer with an unplanned wingover and possibly a
spin, probably moreso with ASW20 with flaps in use


It is built like a tank, simple and parts are available through the
factory
without any issues whatsoever.

If you speak French.

actually I've called Centrair on a couple of occasions and had no difficulty
in speaking with Mary Ann in English (actually her English was probably
better than mine ) They are still or at least were, when I called last
(about a year ago) very supportive of Pegasus owners, even in the USA but
you can expect to wait for special parts, they are IMO a bit slow with
delivering parts.



Send me an email to jacek dot kobiesa
at clearwire dot net to remained me of it and I will send you their
contact. I bought from them hinges, hinge pins, pedals, etc. So, don't
buy from anybody that lack of factory support nonsense.

Support is available. Access to support for non-Francophones can be
challenging. My best advice to a potential Peg owner is to learn enough
French to be polite and have patience.

It's no more difficult speaking English with people at Centrair than it is
with the German companies, being polite with anyone gets you further than
being rude or demanding.



I am 6' 3" (1.9 meters) and 230 pounds (103.3 kilos). Aside from being a
bit tight in the shoulders, my Peg fits me just fine with a backpack
parachute. I do find the rudder pedals to be very narrow and have to fly
wearing specialized driving shoes with narrow soles to fit my feet into
the pedals. I also find that my knees fall exactly under the relatively
sharp bottom edge of the instrument panel (I added some split rubber hose
as "edge dressing" to provide a bit of cushioning).

Rudder pedals are narrow and uncomfortable, there is little room for big
feet in any of these and there was an ad to change out the rudder pedals in
the pegasus (a not so pleasant operation to accomplish) and the new pedals
were even narrower than the originals for whatever reason...


The only item that I had an issue with is very weak
wheel brake. I rebuild it in my glider with new shoes, springs, cable,
and it was still marginal.
I find the brake, operated by a motorcycle-like lever on the stick,
acceptable when stopping from a slow roll, otherwise it's virtually
useless.

actually I never had an issue with the wheel brakes on any of these, the
brakes were not overPowering, but if serviced and adjusted did an OK job of
stoping the glider....but unmaintained you'll be very unhappy with the
stopping power, they all use a reasonibly sized 5" wheel, much better than
many gliders of the era still using very small light 4" wheels.


But don't take my word for it: go and fly
one, and then fly the LS-4, ASW-19, and whatever else you can and make
your own decision. I just sold mine and I put on it last 2 seasons
almost 200 hours.

In my humble opinion, the Pegasus is a great aircraft and a good choice
for moderately experienced pilots as a first high-performance or
competition sailplane.

I concour mostly....for the $ it's in the ball park, I'd say the LS gliders
handle better and are more docile for relative equal perfomance and similar
costs, quality is typical and no one should expect any of these mentioned
gliders to be in perfect condition, all will have some issues with finish
unless thay have been refinished, find one that has had the best care, the
BEST TRAILER since this will have a great deal to do with enjoyment since
assembly is going to be an issue, and check and DOUBLE check the control
connections!
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

Bill
"TX"

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How does the Standard Cirrus compare to the Pegase and 19 in terms of
performance and handling?


Dan

Dan G wrote:
How does the Standard Cirrus compare to the Pegase and 19 in terms of
performance and handling?


Dan


You can find a list of L/D for some gliders he
http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~mjboyd/cfi/...lidersCompared
They give the Pegase at 41.
The Open Cirrus at 44, but it is a 18m ship. The 15m one is given here
at 38.5 in its best variant
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_(planeur)
By comparison, there is a LS4 polar he
http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr...lars/ls-4a.jpg
which gives L/D at 40. I think it is roughly equivalent to the Pegase.
An other comparison is the ASW19, information can be found he
http://www.sailplanedirectory.com/schleich.htm
and ASW19 is given with L/D at 38, that is basically like the standard
Cirrus, and the ASW20 at 43.
By the way, you can find the other manufacturers at the same place.



--

Michel TALON

On Nov 29, 5:16 pm, (Michel Talon) wrote:
By the way, you can find the other manufacturers at the same place.

Thanks for the links. I've also got the Johnson flight tests for both
the 19 and the Cirrus, and again there isn't much between the two
(afaik Johnson never tested the Pegase). The 19 has a slight edge, or
would with equal wing loading. But IMHO handling is a factor in XC
speed - the easier and more forgiving a ship is to fly, the more you
can concentrate on tactics - and that can't be discerned from polars.


Dan

Dan G wrote:
On Nov 29, 5:16 pm, (Michel Talon) wrote:
By the way, you can find the other manufacturers at the same place.

Thanks for the links. I've also got the Johnson flight tests for both
the 19 and the Cirrus, and again there isn't much between the two
(afaik Johnson never tested the Pegase). The 19 has a slight edge, or
would with equal wing loading. But IMHO handling is a factor in XC
speed - the easier and more forgiving a ship is to fly, the more you
can concentrate on tactics - and that can't be discerned from polars.


Dan

You may have discovered my bias from my previous post, but as much as i
liked the ASW15, i disliked the ASW19. For me, it has bad handling,
doesn't climb well. I have flewn the Libelle, the Cirrus, the LS1, LS3,
LS4 and many others, and liked them, but not the 19. Of course this is
very dependant on each individual, because i am sure many people like
the 19. Anyways, objectively, the performance difference between the
Pegase and the 19 is the same as between the Discus and the Pegase. The
handling of the Pegase is "modern", same type as the LS4, etc. and quite
different from the handling of old style gliders. This is perhaps the
reason why someone characterized it as a truck ... Personnally i like
its stability, and it climbs very well. Also the air brakes are very
effective. Of course for an american pilot, it is probably not a good
choice due to the 3000 hours limit. I think it is a shame that Centrair
has handled this issue in such a deplorable way.

--

Michel TALON

In what way do the "modern" glass ships differ from the older ones in
the handling department? Why would that account for someones opinion
that the Peg handled like a truck? I would think that a modern ship
would handle better than an older one, not worse. My only time in a
glass single place is in my ASW 15 and I think the handing is fine. Of
course, my comparison gliders are two seaters (L13, 2-33, Grob) . Not
exactly nimble ships. Just how different is an LS4/Peg etc. from my
15? Roll rate? Lighter controls? Is it a case of not missing what I've
never had?

On the control connection issue, the ASW 15 is not automatic and
getting those safety pins in was a real pain. I put the safety sleeves
on and now its a non-issue. I check the connections at least 3-4 times
and ALWAYS do a PCC. Manual hook ups is not a reason for me to cross a
ship my list of potential new (to me) gliders.

Mike
ASW 15 but in the market

not even in the same category.... keeping in mind you are speaking of quite
an evolutionally jump, much was learned in construction technique, better
airfoils and to a lesser degree performance.
Std Cirrus is in the generation of ASW15, LS1, Libelle and a few others
in this group I would personally rate the LS1 and best handling, easiest to
fly (I'm speaking of LS1f only)
Libelle (my personal favorite) was best design, innovation, easiest to
assemble and just all around great design for the time....production numbers
seem to prove this also. Std Cirrus, ASW15 and earlier LS1 fall below the
head of the class in all of these areas.
my last 2 cents
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Dan G" wrote in message
...
How does the Standard Cirrus compare to the Pegase and 19 in terms of
performance and handling?


Dan

I think the ASW-19 is suitable to low time pilots, as I started flying
my 19 at about 90 hours and 220 flights total experience (95% of that
in 2-33s, 1-26s, L-13s and L-23s). The biggest transition problem for
me was the CG hook and the need for careful approach speed control.

With regard to manual control hook-ups, I don't find them to be a
problem. It takes 20 seconds to connect the L'Hotelliers, and less
than a minute to pin them. You can easily see things if you put your
eye to the inspection hatch, and it's easy to manually verify through
pushing the button while pulling and twisting to verify that they're
properly engaged. True, manuals aren't the no-brainer that automatic
hook-ups are. However, I've seen automatic hook-ups fail to engage and
cause 5 minutes or so of frustration during wing assembly on LS and SH
ships. Naturally, you MUST do a PCC with either type of hook-up!

I can't speak from personal experience regarding the Pegasus, but the
previous owner of my ship bought one. For what it's worth, he said the
Pegasus flew like a truck in comparison to the ASW-19.

-John

With regard to manual control hook-ups, I don't find them to be a
problem. It takes 20 seconds to connect the L'Hotelliers, and less
than a minute to pin them. You can easily see things if you put your
eye to the inspection hatch, and it's easy to manually verify through
pushing the button while pulling and twisting to verify that they're
properly engaged.

must be you're not yet over 50 and into the bifocal user's group....with
Popeye forearms going into tiny hatch opening connections are essentially in
brail, with bright sun looking onto a white fuselage with a black hole to
inspect the connections even making the connetion, say nothing of safety
pins in almost guesswork... I know few who can say that they never missed a
connection at least once....double and triple check them!



I can't speak from personal experience regarding the Pegasus, but the
previous owner of my ship bought one. For what it's worth, he said the
Pegasus flew like a truck in comparison to the ASW-19.

must have been a really nice ASW19 and a really bad Pegasus! They are
essentially the same with modified non-flapped 20 wings on the
Pegasus.....The Pegasus probably then I guess flys more like a 20 than it
does a 19.
tim


-John

On 29 Nov, 17:41, "Tim Mara" wrote:

must have been a really nice ASW19 and a really bad Pegasus! They are
essentially the same with modified non-flapped 20 wings on the
Pegasus.....The Pegasus probably then I guess flys more like a 20 than it
does a 19.

I don't think I ever flew a 19, but I did a fair few hours in a
Pegasus one summer. Lovely thing, I thought - I was told that the
wings are far bendier than 19 ones. Which may mean better energy
transfer or a worse ride, depending on where one flies...

Ian