Confusion

"S Green" wrote in message
...

The pilot should only use the words "take off" when reading back the take
off clearance. No confusion then. When ready, I call the tower with "ready
for departure".

Why would "ready for departure" be less confusing than "ready for takeoff"?

Part of the takeoff clearance?




On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:03:04 -0800 (PST), "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

On Nov 27, 3:56 pm, wrote:

Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.


"... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." was part of the
clearance.

I must say that I have never received a VFR clearance which said "turn
left heading xxx" or "fly runway heading" on takeoff. Where I fly,
these are not VFR departure instructions. Perhaps they are elsewhere.

However, this does not negate my original comment. If departing IFR,
in the ABSENCE of such an instruction, be suspicious.


On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:06:26 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

On Nov 27, 1:56 pm, wrote:
Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.

Have you ever not been given such instructions when VFR?? I've never
gotten a VFR takeoff clearance that didn't include some instruction on
what heading (or at least direction) to fly until leaving the class D.

-Robert

True. The difference here is of course that you will be handed off to
departure whether VFR or IFR, and will be easily able to recover. You
will not be faced with being in limbo as described in the original
post.


On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:39:23 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Nov 27, 1:56 pm, wrote:
Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.

Have you ever not been given such instructions when VFR?? I've never
gotten a VFR takeoff clearance that didn't include some instruction on
what heading (or at least direction) to fly until leaving the class D.


From class B's and certain class C's it was given to me prior to
taxi. The Dulles standard VFR departure is:

Cleared into the class B via fly runway heading maintain vfr at
or below 1500 departure frqeuency 126.1 squawk 0423

Very unusual at class D towers to be given any restriction after
takeoff.

wrote in message
...

Part of the takeoff clearance?


Part of the IFR clearance.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:14:36 -0700, "Jon Woellhaf"
wrote:

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

In most instances, I would refuse to allow ATC to cancel my IFR clearance,
which is what happened in this instance.

If I've filed IFR, it's either because of weather related issues, or
occasionally because of traffic/route/airspace/TFR issues. In none of
those instances would I want to be re-negotiating an IFR clearance just
after takeoff.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

wrote:
I must say that I have never received a VFR clearance which said "turn
left heading xxx" or "fly runway heading" on takeoff.

Very common in busy airspace, as well as at fields with noise abatement
programs.

Northeastern Charlie and Bravo fields will often continue to vector and
assign altitudes until I exit the airspace.

On Nov 27, 3:26 pm, Andrey Serbinenko
wrote:
my SOP to always tell'em this explicitly: if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".

Andrey

Andrey,
It is also our SOP to tell the tower whether we are VFR or IFR.
Our primary flight instructor, a newly minted but very safety
conscious and capable CFI, taught us to do so from the very first
flight lesson.

Hai Longworth

Actually, I have to tell that to the Ground, too, since on calm days they would
use different runways for IFR and VFR, or would be lining up IFR departures
holding for release at full length while clearing VFR traffic for intersection
departure on the same runway. So, if you don't tell them, you may get sent to a
sub-optimal runway. My CFI always made a point of reading back runway and
intersection assignments in response to takeoff clearance, to give the
controller a chance to verify that we're actually at the place he thinks we
are at.

Andrey


Longworth wrote:
On Nov 27, 3:26 pm, Andrey Serbinenko
wrote:
my SOP to always tell'em this explicitly: if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".

Andrey

Andrey,
It is also our SOP to tell the tower whether we are VFR or IFR.
Our primary flight instructor, a newly minted but very safety
conscious and capable CFI, taught us to do so from the very first
flight lesson.

Hai Longworth

However, this does not negate my original comment. If departing IFR,
in the ABSENCE of such an instruction, be suspicious.

In my case (very similar to the OP's case) I was given departing
instructions as part of my clearance by ground. Its very rare to
receive those instructions again from tower so you wouldn't find it
odd if it wasn't repeated. I guess the ground and tower controllers
don't always coordinate as well as they should.

-robert