Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

C J Campbell wrote:
The parents of Bryan Jones, a 34 year old Microsoft engineer who was one
of nine skydivers killed in the crash of a Cessna Caravan, are suing
Cessna. The Caravan was returning from Star, Idaho, to Shelton,
Washington. The parents are alleging that the Cessna Caravan was
defective and should not have been flying in icy weather. The airplane
is not certified for flight into known ice, although the plane in
question did have boots.

So, Cessna is being blamed because a pilot may have operated the plane
in direct contradiction to the aircraft flight manual and warnings in
Cessna's operating instructions.

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime
reasons associated with the virtual end of General Aviation as at least
I knew it for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with
deep pockets involved in an accident. They operate in conditions like
these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and
inappropriate actions of a pilot, if one screw was out of place on the
aircraft itself, the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle"
the suits rather than defend them based upon specific lawyers
reputations for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony
litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a very good chance
that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a
lawsuit are often looked at in the same jaundiced eye by the public as
the phony cases and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA,
but for the most part, the publics' faith and dependence in a true and
honest justice system.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime
reasons associated with the virtual end of General Aviation as at least
I knew it for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with
deep pockets involved in an accident. They operate in conditions like
these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and
inappropriate actions of a pilot, if one screw was out of place on the
aircraft itself, the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle"
the suits rather than defend them based upon specific lawyers
reputations for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony
litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a very good chance
that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a
lawsuit are often looked at in the same jaundiced eye by the public as
the phony cases and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA,
but for the most part, the publics' faith and dependence in a true and
honest justice system.


Well stated Sir. This sort of tort-addicted mentality has to change
in this country or there will be little hope. Not enough people
realize just exactly HOW MUCH they are paying for _everything_
because of lawsuits. Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.

Sad... really sad.

"kontiki" wrote

Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.

********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a hopelessly
screwed up justice system have to do with the price of beans in China? That
seems like it would be a government-social studies failure, if anything.

Is a government school responsible for you not being able to proof read your
posts? It must be, to write "tso they don't have a clue."

I just lost a bit of respect for you. I thought you were smarter than to
play a blame game like you showed in a post like this.
--
Jim in NC

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

Hear, hear! Well put.

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills. My kids are receiving an excellent public school education,
and are now at the age where they no longer need to be "de-programmed"
at the end of the school day. They can -- and often do -- sniff out
the slant on their own.

I think Kontiki was referring to this slant more than anything
specific about the educational process. Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.


The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.

I'm not gonna argue this beyond what I have just said because
those that believe in these systems will defend them forever.
Meanwhile, the US continues into its slow economic and cultural
decline. The current state of GA is but a symptom of this.

People like to shoot the messenger but its a fact.

"kontiki" wrote

The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.

So teaching isn't a real job, huh? Another slap in the face to teachers.
Nice.

Come walk in my shoes for a week or two. You _will_ change your mind.

What job would you like an English teacher to get, anyway? Not much use for
people sitting around conjugating verbs, or diagraming sentence structrures.

The same thing could be said for at least half of what is taught in school.
Not much direct application to the real world. Anyway, much of learning is
learning how to learn. Specific application comes at the job site, in most
vocations.

I'm not gonna argue this beyond what I have just said because
those that believe in these systems will defend them forever.
Meanwhile, the US continues into its slow economic and cultural
decline. The current state of GA is but a symptom of this.

So teaching in the public schools is responsible (even indirectly) for the
decline in GA.

THAT is the biggest streach I believe I have ever seen on this newsgroup,
even from MX.

People like to shoot the messenger but its a fact.

People shoot messengers when they are full of sh*t, and so dense they don't
realize they are full of sh*t.

Sheesh!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

So teaching in the public schools is responsible (even indirectly) for the
decline in GA.

THAT is the biggest streach I believe I have ever seen on this newsgroup,
even from MX.

I won't bother to insult your lack of proofreading (as you did to me)
because I am capable of understanding and then debating a point in
spite of a minor typo someone happened to make while expressing and
impassioned response.

I am not saying there are not some good (albeit frustrated) teachers
in the public schools. But that does not justify the system itself...
it is in fact very flawed. The same is true of government... it is ver
flawed and corrupt but there may be a few good ones out there.


People like to shoot the messenger but its a fact.

People shoot messengers when they are full of sh*t, and so dense they don't
realize they are full of sh*t.

Sheesh!

I can see that you are incapable of discussing this concept within
the contraints of logic alone but rather must resort to personal
insults. I do understand that so much of this subject is sensitive
to you because it involves the career you have chosen.

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:28:03 GMT, kontiki

The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.

My wife didn't do it that way.

She worked for a Fortune 50 corporation, then ran the office for her
parent's 180+ employee asbestos and lead abatement company, then
decided to teach elementary school. She took her first teaching job
@ 37.

Her elementary school coworkers include a couple who worked for an oil
company in Saudi Arabia for 20 years (first taught in their 50's), an
ex advertising sales executive (42, as a first year teacher), and a
former Comair pilot.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:28:03 GMT, kontiki

The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.

My wife didn't do it that way.

And exception does not disprove the other 100,000 cases.


She worked for a Fortune 50 corporation, then ran the office for her
parent's 180+ employee asbestos and lead abatement company, then
decided to teach elementary school. She took her first teaching job
@ 37.

It's outstanding your wife is an exception. Now, iof she is willing to take
on a class of 36,000,000 students, we're all set.


Her elementary school coworkers include a couple who worked for an oil
company in Saudi Arabia for 20 years (first taught in their 50's), an
ex advertising sales executive (42, as a first year teacher), and a
former Comair pilot.

Good for them and our thanks.

Now you just have to account for the other 2,000,000 teachers.

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:28:03 GMT, kontiki

The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.


My wife didn't do it that way.

She worked for a Fortune 50 corporation, then ran the office for her
parent's 180+ employee asbestos and lead abatement company, then
decided to teach elementary school. She took her first teaching job
@ 37.

Her elementary school coworkers include a couple who worked for an oil
company in Saudi Arabia for 20 years (first taught in their 50's), an
ex advertising sales executive (42, as a first year teacher), and a
former Comair pilot.
Yeah, in our local school system a number of our teachers are retired
military. It's affordable to be a teacher if you are pulling a pension :-).

Margy