Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

Matt Whiting wrote:
Morgans wrote:

"kontiki" wrote

Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.


********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the
students, and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not
motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a
hopelessly screwed up justice system have to do with the price of
beans in China? That seems like it would be a government-social
studies failure, if anything.


Blaming the schools alone isn't legitimate, but they certainly have been
a significant contributor. Public schools long ago moved from a
"personal responsibility" to a "self-esteem" based approached that has
been disastrous and is a significant contributor to many of society's
problems today.

No longer can schools punish students as it is either illegal or will
harm the students' self-esteem. When a student fails a class, we blame
everyone but the student and find a way to move them along anyway. I
know you have public school connections (your wife as I recall), but the
reality is that public schools HAVE contributed to this phenomenon of
sending subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, messages that nothing is
YOUR fault it is the fault of the "system", and don't worry as the
"system" will take care of you anyway.

Matt
It's not the schools its the parents. I've seen parents come in to find
out why the TEACHER made a mistake and Johnny got a B. The parent went
to the principal to complain. In an unbelievable act the principal
actually defended the teacher. In addition teachers have a common name
for many science fair projects. They are called "daddy-dos". In a
system where parents attack teachers if the kids do poorly you can
hardly blame the teachers. Maybe the schools for not telling the
parents off, but if you tell the parents off the school budget doesn't
get passed.

Margy

Margy

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:30:56 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote:


It's not the schools its the parents. I've seen parents come in to find
out why the TEACHER made a mistake and Johnny got a B.

My wife's a dedicated teacher. I hear it every day. 8^(

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:30:56 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote:


It's not the schools its the parents.

Umm...the parents that came though public schools?


I've seen parents come in to find
out why the TEACHER made a mistake and Johnny got a B.

My wife's a dedicated teacher. I hear it every day. 8^(

And the teachers that have been telling parents, for years now, to "Shut
up...we're the experts" hasan't had an effect?

I remember when they gave teachers the same tests they were giving their
students, the teachers failed...miserablly.

I have, though, been to my kids school to ask the teacher why a science
question was a single sentence 115 worlds long, and why a friend of our,
with an MS degree from Princeton, could not figure out the problem.

That's just ONE instance.

Dedication is nice, but that's about all - it will not give students even an
ounce of knowledge or ability to comprehend the world.

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:17:30 -0700, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:



And the teachers that have been telling parents, for years now, to "Shut
up...we're the experts" hasan't had an effect?

My wife has kids that are up all night because the SWAT Team is
busting the parents for dealing.

She also has kids that have mothers with "friends" that come and go,
an hour at a time, in mom's bedroom.

She also has parents that exclaim "You're picking on the black man!"
when she tries to tell them their kid can't read well enough to pass
kindergarten, even though he's in second grade.

Oddly enough, her Indian, Pakastani, Middle Eastern, Mexican, and
Eastern European immigrant (Czech, Polish, Russian states...) parents
who take great interest, as well as get great improvement, with kids
who aren't pulling the sled.

B A R R Y wrote in
news
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:17:30 -0700, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:



And the teachers that have been telling parents, for years now, to "Shut
up...we're the experts" hasan't had an effect?

My wife has kids that are up all night because the SWAT Team is
busting the parents for dealing.

She also has kids that have mothers with "friends" that come and go,
an hour at a time, in mom's bedroom.

She also has parents that exclaim "You're picking on the black man!"
when she tries to tell them their kid can't read well enough to pass
kindergarten, even though he's in second grade.

Oddly enough, her Indian, Pakastani, Middle Eastern, Mexican, and
Eastern European immigrant (Czech, Polish, Russian states...) parents
who take great interest, as well as get great improvement, with kids
who aren't pulling the sled.



And your point?


Bertie

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:58:46 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

And your point?


Bad parents have unteachable kids. The criminals I mentioned...

Parents who care, and are involved, have successful kids. The
successful immigrants...

I'll bet the same thing would have happened to you that would have
happened to me if we brought home an "F". Today, it's not like that.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:58:46 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

And your point?


Bad parents have unteachable kids. The criminals I mentioned...

I know a kid whose dad spent years in the state pen and was later killed by
a SWAT team. He graduated third in his class of over 400.


Parents who care, and are involved, have successful kids. The
successful immigrants...

I'll bet the same thing would have happened to you that would have
happened to me if we brought home an "F". Today, it's not like that.

Many times an "F" is deserved. As many times the teacher would have also
gotten an "F". When they gave math teachers the same math tests, the average
grade was 60%, with 70% being a failing grade. It's nearly the rule, rather
than the exception.

Given the absolute irrationality and indoctrination coming from schools,
would more attentive parents make that much of a dent? Would it make the
psychosis coming from schools go away?

No matter how attentive parents are, "whole word reading", for example,
isn't going to make kids good readers. Would it make schools less likely to
spread Global Warming bull****?

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:58:46 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

And your point?


Bad parents have unteachable kids. The criminals I mentioned...

Parents who care, and are involved, have successful kids. The
successful immigrants...

I'll bet the same thing would have happened to you that would have
happened to me if we brought home an "F". Today, it's not like that.


I know exactly what it's like.

So, The current systemn encourages parents who care, and their kids are
successful.

So what is your beef, then?


Bertie

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:17:30 -0700, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:



And the teachers that have been telling parents, for years now, to "Shut
up...we're the experts" hasan't had an effect?

My wife has kids that are up all night because the SWAT Team is
busting the parents for dealing.

She also has kids that have mothers with "friends" that come and go,
an hour at a time, in mom's bedroom.

She also has parents that exclaim "You're picking on the black man!"
when she tries to tell them their kid can't read well enough to pass
kindergarten, even though he's in second grade.

And these folks learned those traits, where? NEWS: it wasn't until recent
times that such behavior was commonplace.


Oddly enough, her Indian, Pakastani, Middle Eastern, Mexican, and
Eastern European immigrant (Czech, Polish, Russian states...) parents
who take great interest, as well as get great improvement, with kids
who aren't pulling the sled.

No doubt. Let them stew in the PS system for a few years?

The school systems created the monster in the 60's onward; contemporary
parents (2nd generation and forward) are the results.

On Dec 2, 3:17 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:

I remember when they gave teachers the same tests they were giving their
students, the teachers failed...miserablly.

Yea right. How well could YOU do on these tests.

I have, though, been to my kids school to ask the teacher why a science
question was a single sentence 115 worlds long, and why a friend of our,
with an MS degree from Princeton, could not figure out the problem.

I saw this one on TV. The show was called "Are You Smarter Than a
Fifth Grader. I have the home version. Its fun!

That's just ONE instance.

Dedication is nice, but that's about all - it will not give students even an
ounce of knowledge or ability to comprehend the world.

FB