Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:55:00 -0500, B A R R Y
wrote:

Boots on the lifting surfaces, struts, prop, cargo pod leading edges,
and an inertial intake separator. The plane was also placarded on
the panel for imitations in operations in ice.

Sorry... LIMITATIONS.

Okay...I was wondering of Rich Little became a pilot.

Viperdoc wrote:
I spent a night a few months ago trying to piece together the leg of a woman
who had been injured in a car crash. (they are no longer called accidents).

At around 4 AM, when we were finishing, I went to sign the paperwork and
found a maroon folder with some brochures and cards from a local law firm!
She was only a few hours out from her accident, and was still in the
operating room, yet somehow one of the local personal injury lawyers had
gotten the brochure into her chart!

Talk about aggressive marketing!


I have a friend who's the Police Chief on our local police force. He
informs me that the lawyers have police scanners in their cars and in
many instances, the lawyers are on the scene soliciting business even
before the police can answer the call.


--
Dudley Henriques

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:29:31 -0700, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:

Many times an "F" is deserved.

I totally agree.

As many times the teacher would have also
gotten an "F". When they gave math teachers the same math tests, the
average
grade was 60%, with 70% being a failing grade. It's nearly the rule,
rather
than the exception.

I'd like to read that. Where did you see it?

State of Arizona (run up to AMES tests) where my Bro-in-laws kids tests were
held off for four years until the teachers could pass them or re-write the
tests.

Remember, teaching
programs and educational requirements vary greatly from state to
state.

And just how much difference is there from the "best" states, to the worst?


Would it make schools less likely to
spread Global Warming bull****?

I'm with ya' there.

And that's just one example of many, such as "diversity", racism, sexism,
etc., not to mention revisionist history, modern math, "progressive"
politics as the only answer.

Ask your wife what she knows about Thomas Mann, the "father of American
public schools" and what he wanted to accomplish, or John Dewey.

It's been said that schools are not doing a bad job..they're doing exactly
what they were set up to do over 160 years ago and locked in during the
early 1900's. Unfortunately, teaching kids to reason, engage in critical
thinking, use inductive and deductive reasoning is NOT the agenda.

==
Sitting on my desk I found a cite concerning Horace Mann, the Common School,
and development from the Prussian school in an extensive chapter from a
textbook used in undergraduate education classes at my university. The title
of the text is "School & Society: Educational Practice as

Social Expression", (1993) McGraw-Hill, Publishers, ISBN: 0-07-557043-2

Selected quotes from pages 53-70"

p. 55: "Among the wide variety of educational topics addressed by Mann
during his tenure as Secretary [of the Massachusetts State Board], perhaps
the most significant were school buildings, moral values, the example of
Prussian education,discipline, teachers, and the economic value of
education"

p. 59 "He was first introduced to Prussian schools by [popular] reports of
their successes. The Prussian system had been organized in the 1820s along a
model recommended by Johann Frichte, the German philosopher, during the
Napoleonic occupation of Prussia. Fichte's proposals were designed to
develop Prussian nationalism and a nation strong enough to unite the German
states for world leadership. By the mid-1830s the Prussian experiment had
excited educators in western Europe and the United States.

p. 60 "The system was class-based and consisted of two separate tiers of
schooling. The tier for the aristocratic class. . .was academically
oriented.. . .The tier for the common people. . .was compulsory. Its goal
was to develop patriotic citizens. . .In addition to loyalty and obedience
to authority, it provided basic literacy and numeracy. Most of the graduates
went directly into the work force.

Loyalty and obedience, not initiative or critical thinking, were the goals
for training the common people. As Fichte had written on education, "If you
want to influence him at all, you must do more than merely talk to him. You
must fashion him, and fashion him in such a way that he cannot will
otherwise than you wish him to will".

....The Prussian *volkschule* (the common tier) evoked Mann's most
enthusiastic response. . .he was not completely oblivious to the dangers
inherent in using institutions designed for an authoritarian society as
models for a democracy, but he quickly dismissed these dangers as
inconsequential."

p. 65: "The Secretary's [Mann] arguments were persuasive because of the
different messages they carried to various segments of his constituency. To
the workingman, the message was: send your children to school so they may
become rich. Employers were advised that the common schools would provide
them with workers who were not only more productive, , but also docile,
easily managed, and unlikely to resort to strikes or violence."

p. 67..."While Mann was emphasizing the intellectual results of common
schooling, his industrial supporters were emphasizing the enculturation of a
value system amenable to industrialized factory life"

p. 70...Mann, however, unlike Jefferson, was not driven by fear of tyranny,
but by fear of social disorder and moral decay. . . .While Mann believed he
was advocating education for religious and republican virtue, some of his
contemporaries argued that he was instead instituting a system of social
control"

=====================

You may check this book out for yourself to guarantee that I have not
selectively quoted out of context.

This is just Thomas Mann. Here's Dewey:

"The mere absorbing of facts and truths is so exclusively individual an
affair that it tends very naturally to pass into selfishness. There is no
obvious social motive for the acquirement of mere learning, there is no
clear social gain in success thereat." --John Dewey

Read some educational history, it's just simply a well-known fact about the
origins of our present educational system and it's predominant principles!

On Dec 2, 5:39 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:

If his argumentation here is any indication, it's no small wonder we now
have the better part of two generations that completely bonkers. If we note
the propensity of so many to make childish excuses, it's because they had
extensive exposure to that mindset in what we call their "teachers". Many of
these folks should be in padded rooms, not school rooms.- Hide quoted text -


Fjuck me dude !This is brilliant !

On Dec 2, 5:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I once had a lawyer tell me that the TRUE mark of a lawyers ability can
be shown by that lawyer's ability to argue first the plaintiff's side of
the case, then the defendent's side of the same case....and win BOTH times!

And you believed this. Sounds like machizmo gloating to me. Were you
at a bar? )

F. Baum wrote:
On Dec 2, 5:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I once had a lawyer tell me that the TRUE mark of a lawyers ability can
be shown by that lawyer's ability to argue first the plaintiff's side of
the case, then the defendent's side of the same case....and win BOTH times!

And you believed this. Sounds like machizmo gloating to me. Were you
at a bar? )


No. I was in fact attending a luncheon at the Naval Test Pilot School.
The comment came from the a professional associate of mine; a graduate
of a major university law school.
We did however show up at a bar later on in the day for some "attitude
adjustment."

--
Dudley Henriques

Its possible that public schools could be eliminated entirely if the
number of people who cannot afford private schools is not large. Low
income families could then be given coupons paid for by taxpayer money
that can be redeemed for education in private schools. All this
assumes that if public schools are eliminated gradually, private
schools will spring up to fill a market need and the total costs are
going to be the same in the long run but with a better quality of
education. Taxes would also need to be adjusted to reflect the fact
that the government is no longer funding public schools.

On Dec 2, 5:26 pm, kontiki wrote:
Morgans wrote:

So teaching in the public schools is responsible (even indirectly) for the
decline in GA.

THAT is the biggest streach I believe I have ever seen on this newsgroup,
even from MX.

I won't bother to insult your lack of proofreading (as you did to me)
because I am capable of understanding and then debating a point in
spite of a minor typo someone happened to make while expressing and
impassioned response.

I am not saying there are not some good (albeit frustrated) teachers
in the public schools. But that does not justify the system itself...
it is in fact very flawed. The same is true of government... it is ver
flawed and corrupt but there may be a few good ones out there.



People like to shoot the messenger but its a fact.

People shoot messengers when they are full of sh*t, and so dense they don't
realize they are full of sh*t.

Sheesh!

I can see that you are incapable of discussing this concept within
the contraints of logic alone but rather must resort to personal
insults. I do understand that so much of this subject is sensitive
to you because it involves the career you have chosen.

On Dec 2, 8:50 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in messagenews:qdk6l35sjc8gpa98jtbh0t7u5v1puc7o4h@4ax .com...

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:29:31 -0700, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:

Many times an "F" is deserved.

I totally agree.

As many times the teacher would have also
gotten an "F". When they gave math teachers the same math tests, the
average
grade was 60%, with 70% being a failing grade. It's nearly the rule,
rather
than the exception.

I'd like to read that. Where did you see it?

State of Arizona (run up to AMES tests) where my Bro-in-laws kids tests were
held off for four years until the teachers could pass them or re-write the
tests.

Remember, teaching
programs and educational requirements vary greatly from state to
state.

And just how much difference is there from the "best" states, to the worst?



Would it make schools less likely to
spread Global Warming bull****?

I'm with ya' there.

And that's just one example of many, such as "diversity", racism, sexism,
etc., not to mention revisionist history, modern math, "progressive"
politics as the only answer.

Ask your wife what she knows about Thomas Mann, the "father of American
public schools" and what he wanted to accomplish, or John Dewey.

It's been said that schools are not doing a bad job..they're doing exactly
what they were set up to do over 160 years ago and locked in during the
early 1900's. Unfortunately, teaching kids to reason, engage in critical
thinking, use inductive and deductive reasoning is NOT the agenda.

==
Sitting on my desk I found a cite concerning Horace Mann, the Common School,
and development from the Prussian school in an extensive chapter from a
textbook used in undergraduate education classes at my university. The title
of the text is "School & Society: Educational Practice as

Social Expression", (1993) McGraw-Hill, Publishers, ISBN: 0-07-557043-2

Selected quotes from pages 53-70"

p. 55: "Among the wide variety of educational topics addressed by Mann
during his tenure as Secretary [of the Massachusetts State Board], perhaps
the most significant were school buildings, moral values, the example of
Prussian education,discipline, teachers, and the economic value of
education"

p. 59 "He was first introduced to Prussian schools by [popular] reports of
their successes. The Prussian system had been organized in the 1820s along a
model recommended by Johann Frichte, the German philosopher, during the
Napoleonic occupation of Prussia. Fichte's proposals were designed to
develop Prussian nationalism and a nation strong enough to unite the German
states for world leadership. By the mid-1830s the Prussian experiment had
excited educators in western Europe and the United States.

p. 60 "The system was class-based and consisted of two separate tiers of
schooling. The tier for the aristocratic class. . .was academically
oriented.. . .The tier for the common people. . .was compulsory. Its goal
was to develop patriotic citizens. . .In addition to loyalty and obedience
to authority, it provided basic literacy and numeracy. Most of the graduates
went directly into the work force.

Loyalty and obedience, not initiative or critical thinking, were the goals
for training the common people. As Fichte had written on education, "If you
want to influence him at all, you must do more than merely talk to him. You
must fashion him, and fashion him in such a way that he cannot will
otherwise than you wish him to will".

...The Prussian *volkschule* (the common tier) evoked Mann's most
enthusiastic response. . .he was not completely oblivious to the dangers
inherent in using institutions designed for an authoritarian society as
models for a democracy, but he quickly dismissed these dangers as
inconsequential."

p. 65: "The Secretary's [Mann] arguments were persuasive because of the
different messages they carried to various segments of his constituency. To
the workingman, the message was: send your children to school so they may
become rich. Employers were advised that the common schools would provide
them with workers who were not only more productive, , but also docile,
easily managed, and unlikely to resort to strikes or violence."

p. 67..."While Mann was emphasizing the intellectual results of common
schooling, his industrial supporters were emphasizing the enculturation of a
value system amenable to industrialized factory life"

p. 70...Mann, however, unlike Jefferson, was not driven by fear of tyranny,
but by fear of social disorder and moral decay. . . .While Mann believed he
was advocating education for religious and republican virtue, some of his
contemporaries argued that he was instead instituting a system of social
control"

=====================

You may check this book out for yourself to guarantee that I have not
selectively quoted out of context.

This is just Thomas Mann. Here's Dewey:

"The mere absorbing of facts and truths is so exclusively individual an
affair that it tends very naturally to pass into selfishness. There is no
obvious social motive for the acquirement of mere learning, there is no
clear social gain in success thereat." --John Dewey

Read some educational history, it's just simply a well-known fact about the
origins of our present educational system and it's predominant principles!

MxMatt, I am facinated how you can deduece that the current state of
education in this country rests ENTIRELY on some guy who held office
167 years ago. And to think he predicted what to teach our kids about
global warming ! Priceless. This is right up there with your theory
that Hillary Clinton is gonna corner the market on Avgas and jack up
the price.

Half the kids don't speak English. That makes it tuff on everyone. I think
that's the biggest problem.

"kontiki" wrote

Yes, its a huge problem that tends to feed on itself. But before
any solution can be attained there must first be a recognition
that a problem exists and an understanding of the nature of
the problem. Then there must be the ability to use some critical
thinking (i.e. thinking outside the box) that most people lack.

I submit that this is to a significant degree due to the fact that
it is not taught or even encouraged in the current education system.
There are other factors of course, but I our education system is
probably the most important one. If someone is not educated enough
to recognize that a problem exists there can never be a solution.

I seriously doubt that you are more than slightly aware of the goals of
thinking styles that are being taught, or encouraged.

If your paragraph (in context) is attempting to state that critical
thinking, (i.e. thinking outside the box) is not being taught, or even
encouraged, then you are quite wrong.

Perhaps you could suggest a curriculum to achieve these goals better than
what is being done today.

Straighten us out. Please tell us what we are not doing right. You will
get plenty of people listening, I'm sure. If you can not do this, then you
are just another person with all of the problems and no solutions, which
does nobody any good.

It is easy to criticize, but hard to fix.

Oh, and by the way; you are quick to jump me for making personal attacks.
My words pale compared to Mat B's. No criticism for him?
--
Jim in NC