Renter's Insurance?

Dallas wrote:
A pilot buddy who works for a law firm has rattled my cage over
renter's insurance and liability.

Do you renters feel the need to pick up supplemental insurance? If
so who did you use and how much did it cost you?

Here's his comments:

You should talk to me about FBO insurance too. Unless your FBO is
different than every other FBO I've ever been into, their insurance
provides them (and/or the aircraft owner if it is leased to the FBO)
with hull coverage and liability insurance. In the event of damage
to the aircraft, of harm to a person (but maybe not you), the
insurance will pay to repair the aircraft and defend and pay and
lawsuits that arise out of the event. However, when all is said and
done, to the extent that the incident is your fault (most are), the
insurance company will have the right to sue you to recover all the
amounts they paid to 'clean up your mess'. If you are renting from
an FBO, getting a renter's policy (sometimes called a non-owned
aircraft policy) is a good idea. I've never figured out how the
'hull' portion of those polcies work - if you were flying a $100K
aircraft, you wouldn't want to have to maintain $100K of hull
coverage on top of the liability coverage.


Is everything above after "Here's his comments:" really a lawyers comments?
If so he really needs to go do some remedial work on insurance law. Because
the last part about hull versus liability shows a significant cluelessness.

The liability covers the insured against damage done to OTHER's person or
property. The hull coverage covers the insured aircraft.

That said, if you need renter's insurance depends on two things. The policy
that to FBO has and your personal net worth. There are policies out there
that cover renters with no or limited right to subrogation. If your FBO has
one of those you don't need renter's insurance. Also, if you don't have
enough assets you don't need to worry about it either.

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:35:52 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Is everything above after "Here's his comments:" really a lawyers comments?

Sorta yes and no.. he's a paralegal at the firm.

Also, if you don't have enough assets you don't need to worry about it either.

Yeah, the ole blood out a turnip... The nice thing about Texas is they
can't come after your homestead. But, I'm guessing they can clean out a
stock portfolio.

--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:35:52 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Is everything above after "Here's his comments:" really a lawyers
comments?

Sorta yes and no.. he's a paralegal at the firm.


It would somewhat concern me that you ae taking advice from someone that
doesn't understand the difference in what is covered by liability and hull
coverage.


Also, if you don't have enough assets you don't need to worry about
it either.

Yeah, the ole blood out a turnip... The nice thing about Texas is
they can't come after your homestead. But, I'm guessing they can
clean out a stock portfolio.

Yes they can. Assets are assets unless they are protected.

AOPA has a perfectly good renter's policy. I'd check it out if you are in
the market.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Yeah, the ole blood out a turnip... The nice thing about Texas is
they can't come after your homestead. But, I'm guessing they can
clean out a stock portfolio.

Yes they can. Assets are assets unless they are protected.

Sounds like Texas may have a Homestead Act as well.

The Homestead Act
Questions & Answers
Massachusetts General Laws, Ch. 188, §1-10
What is a Declaration of Homestead/Homestead Protection?
An Estate of Homestead is a type of protection for a person's residence, in
the form of a document called a "Declaration of Estate of Homestead". The
form is filed at the Registry of Deeds in the county where the property is
located, referencing the title/deed to the property. It allows homeowners in
Massachusetts to protect their property up to five hundred thousand dollars
($500,000) of the value of their primary residence, per family.

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:37:49 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

It would somewhat concern me that you ae taking advice from someone that
doesn't understand the difference in what is covered by liability and hull
coverage.

That's why I come here.

:-)

--
Dallas

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
That said, if you need renter's insurance depends on two things. The policy
that to FBO has and your personal net worth. There are policies out there
that cover renters with no or limited right to subrogation. If your FBO has
one of those you don't need renter's insurance. Also, if you don't have
enough assets you don't need to worry about it either.


Exactly so. Way back when I was young and poor, I tore up a C-210 to the tune
of about $17,000 in damage. I was warned the insurance company might come after
me but all I could offer them was my **** pot. That was the end of that. I
guess they weren't interested in my '69 Fury I.

So sad, too bad... for them. I got away with that when I was young. Today I
wouldn't take the chance... too much to lose now.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:37:44 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

That was the end of that. I guess they weren't interested in my '69 Fury I.

So sad, too bad... for them. I got away with that when I was young. Today I
wouldn't take the chance... too much to lose now.

Yeah, that '69 Fury's got to be worth a lot more now.

:-)

--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:37:44 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

That was the end of that. I guess they weren't interested in my '69 Fury I.

So sad, too bad... for them. I got away with that when I was young. Today I
wouldn't take the chance... too much to lose now.

Yeah, that '69 Fury's got to be worth a lot more now.



I have my doubts. I, on the other hand....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Dec 5, 1:35 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Dallas wrote:
A pilot buddy who works for a law firm has rattled my cage over
renter's insurance and liability.

Do you renters feel the need to pick up supplemental insurance? If
so who did you use and how much did it cost you?

Here's his comments:

You should talk to me about FBO insurance too. Unless your FBO is
different than every other FBO I've ever been into, their insurance
provides them (and/or the aircraft owner if it is leased to the FBO)
with hull coverage and liability insurance. In the event of damage
to the aircraft, of harm to a person (but maybe not you), the
insurance will pay to repair the aircraft and defend and pay and
lawsuits that arise out of the event. However, when all is said and
done, to the extent that the incident is your fault (most are), the
insurance company will have the right to sue you to recover all the
amounts they paid to 'clean up your mess'. If you are renting from
an FBO, getting a renter's policy (sometimes called a non-owned
aircraft policy) is a good idea. I've never figured out how the
'hull' portion of those polcies work - if you were flying a $100K
aircraft, you wouldn't want to have to maintain $100K of hull
coverage on top of the liability coverage.

Is everything above after "Here's his comments:" really a lawyers comments?
If so he really needs to go do some remedial work on insurance law. Because
the last part about hull versus liability shows a significant cluelessness.

The liability covers the insured against damage done to OTHER's person or
property. The hull coverage covers the insured aircraft.

That said, if you need renter's insurance depends on two things. The policy
that to FBO has and your personal net worth. There are policies out there
that cover renters with no or limited right to subrogation. If your FBO has
one of those you don't need renter's insurance. Also, if you don't have
enough assets you don't need to worry about it either.

Technically it's true but as a practical matter insurers almost never
exercise their right of subrogation. I might even say never. I know
an insurance broker who's been in the business for decades who tells
me he's never seen it happen, and it actually kind of annoys him
because he has seen some cases that really cried out for subrogation
(particularly stupid people with money being really negligent and
causing his clients' insurace to pay out large sums). They have the
right but don't for whatever reason don't exercise it.

Last time this topic came up I asked if anyone could name any case
that they knew of where subrogation actually occurred, and the answer
was crickets.

That said, I belong to a club where I am a named insured so it's
academic to me. If not for that, I might take the plunge into renters
insurance anyway, seems cheap compared to what's at stake.

xyzzy wrote:

Technically it's true but as a practical matter insurers almost never
exercise their right of subrogation.

Are you talking aviation related insurance only? Because if not I've got two
work comp subrogation cases working right this second.