Shock! Hana's Diana 2 in service

All this only shows again that a client of this Polish glider
manufacturer has no other possibility than being forced to "do it
himself" because he does not get the necessary service, not the
required instructions, nor papers when he needs this all urgently for
flying. He did not even get the right documentation for the glider
itself (and not for the trailer?).

how can You know that? How is it posible that the producer doesn't give the
instructions?

This was to read here somewhere in
the forum. As far as I remember the Australians did these
"modifications" after the problems occured and after they did not
receive help from the manufacturer, right?

Yes it was. But as I can remember nothing was told about modifications. The
only thing was told was that #3 glider's airbrakes and flaperons were
working bad, and that mr Beres didnt want to fix it. Nobody told the truth
that the owner contacted the producer AFTER he has made the modifications
and that mr Beres proposed to fix the glider for free even though it was
broken by the user. His only condition was to ship the plane to him.
It is imposible that a glider with incorrectly adjusted airbrakes or
flaperons leaves the factory for the client. That is what the test flighst
are for. So I claim that the glider was OK when it left the factory.
But You are right in one thing - he should have gone to Australia that time
and fix the glider there. And off course he should have taken lots of money
for his travel and the repair itself. Because that is what other producers
do when ones equipment is broken by inproper use.

What else can a client (who
is not a mechanic or specialist) do, far away from the manufactuer,
then trying to help himself.

If the glider was damaged because of the manufacturer? The client should
demand reparation on producers cost.
When the glider was damaged by the user - the user should pay for the repair
( or write many messages on RAS saying that the glider is a piece of crap
and that way make the producer repair it on his cost )

By the way - what do these photos here
show? Nothing particular, only that finally the manufacturer is doing
something - that's all. Just the wrong exchange of a rediculous screw
is not a big problem.

Oh, realy?! I hope You have nothing to do with gliders maintenance.
It is a big problem. You can exchange a screw with anything You want,
but only if it is a screw in a wheelbarrow, because I guess you wouldn't do
it in Your bicycle.

I have the impression that the fiercy reaction
of the Polish manufacturer only is an quite shamful attempt to save
his face.

Where can You see that fiercy reaction You are talking about? If You You
call fiercy the discussion we are having now or the pictures - they are only
a reaction of few pilots who care about the good reputation of Polish
gliders. The producer has nothing to do with it but letting one of us make
photos of the glider and explaining to us the history of it a few months
ago, when RAS was being flooded with a news about his botch-up.

Regards
Maciek K.

PS
Yes, I'm Polish

If the glider was damaged because of the manufacturer? The client
should
demand reparation on producers cost.
When the glider was damaged by the user - the user should pay for the
repair
( or write many messages on RAS saying that the glider is a piece of
crap
and that way make the producer repair it on his cost )

That's a point!

Andy

It's a shame that the reputation of the Diana-2 and its makers have
been blackmailed to repair something for free that they are not
responsible for.

I wonder how many sales this has cost them. The sailplane is without a
doubt the highest performing 15 Meter ever built and the contest
placements at the very least seem to support this contention.

Just this summer the Diana-2 placed 1st and 2nd at the European
Championships, after winning the Grand Prix and the Worlds........At
the previous European Championships, the Diana-2 placed 2nd.

Too bad the reputation has been needlessly sullied. I wonder how
stupid some people can be to let a ham handed mechanic fiddle like
that with a brand new aircraft.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:18:09 -0800, tommytoyz wrote:

Too bad the reputation has been needlessly sullied. I wonder how
stupid some people can be to let a ham handed mechanic fiddle like
that with a brand new aircraft.

Nobody is going to start pulling off the Mylar seals on their brand new
glider unless they are desperate.

From what we read in the other reports on RAS, this desperation came about
from the lack of response from the factory on the purchaser's perceived
shortcomings with the product.

Reputations are built on perceptions. The facts, with respect to the
airworthiness of the aircraft, and the failure, or otherwise of the
factory to meet their contractual obligations are not known to us, and
probably never will be. So we make our decisions based on what we do know.

I know of other glider manufacturers who have found themselves with
un-happy customers and reacted by making qualified personal and spare
parts available. Their reputations are still intact...


Ian

An example is the profile warping of the ASW-27. Didn't really deter
anyone nor the reputation of Schleicher. Nor the spar delamination
problems of Schemp-Hirth sailplanes.

Or the incorrectly manufactured spars of the DG aircraft, resulting in
reduced operating ranges.

If these problems had occurred on the Diana-2 - people would have
screamed bloody murder. Instead, we had ONE customer who let an
unqalified person wreck their plane and then demanded the
manufacturere fix it all.

In the other cases involving the German manufacturers, it was a series
of discoveries on various aircraft that occurred due to manufacturing
problems, not due to a monkey mechanic wrecking the aircraft.

It's a shame for all involved.

Isn't is true also that the owner (warranty holder) was not the person
whom had possession of the sailplane. I recall reading that the owner
was very difficult to contact. This also added further complications.



adding to the On Dec 6, 1:15 pm, tommytoyz
wrote:
An example is the profile warping of the ASW-27. Didn't really deter
anyone nor the reputation of Schleicher. Nor the spar delamination
problems of Schemp-Hirth sailplanes.

Or the incorrectly manufactured spars of the DG aircraft, resulting in
reduced operating ranges.

If these problems had occurred on the Diana-2 - people would have
screamed bloody murder. Instead, we had ONE customer who let an
unqalified person wreck their plane and then demanded the
manufacturere fix it all.

In the other cases involving the German manufacturers, it was a series
of discoveries on various aircraft that occurred due to manufacturing
problems, not due to a monkey mechanic wrecking the aircraft.

It's a shame for all involved.

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:15:21 -0800 (PST), tommytoyz
wrote:

It's a shame for all involved.

Question:
Would you rip-apart your brand-new glider that is working perfectly?



Bye
Andreas

No, I would not rip apart a new glider working perfectly.

Nor would I under any circumstances let an unqualified mechanic make
the matter worse - one who apparently thinks banging a square peg into
a round hole is a good thing. Looking at how the stabilizer cover is
torn and the bolts that were inserted are wrong - makes clear that
somebody hammed up the thing for some reason and want the manufacturer
to take the blame.

I would also not claim on a public forum that there is little
technical information in the manual when other owners have clearly
stated that is not the case.

People do stupid things in life. The glider is pretty banged up just
from the manhandling by the Aussies. Why we don't know. Maybe she
wanted the control forced to be made lighter and someone promised her
they could "fix" that.

There are a million reasons. But just because someone fiddles with
their new glider does not prove there was anything wrong with it.
People fiddle with their new gliders all the time. Only this time they
screwed it up.

Has anyone actually said who performed the alterations?

The photo shows what seems to be fairly accurate turning on the pin, and a good quality bolt, from viewing just the photos available. The bolt has been sawn to facilitate tightening in a confined space, this should not be a problem to it either.

Why was the alteration needed in the first place? - just a question, not with blame.

As a fitter, if I needed to turn down a pin which had a bush on it, I am looking for more clearance. Next step, no bush.

As an observer, a lot is being said here in conjecture, with probably justified passion. The people involved are passionate about gliding too, Hana is a national champion, Diana a fantastic aircraft.

Please lets be careful about what we speculate apon, its a small industry and these things always take time.

bagger