Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

But all it will take is one spill to do great harm. A spill is possible
for
any person that walks out with coffee that hot.

And it takes only one drink to impair someone's judgment and motor skills
enough to have a serious accident and kill someone.


The big point is that the seller of the coffee has in his power the
ability to make a safer product, and does not take the opportunity.
There is some responsibility because of that fact.

As does the seller of alcoholic drinks. Think O-Douls. There is no need
to sell unsafe drinks that contain alcohol.

I have no idea why you have such a hard on about this subject, and for my
points, but your arguments have descended into the illogical and absurd.

You will have to play with yourself, from here on out. I'm done with you,
on this one.
--
Jim in NC

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:54:07 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote:

On 2007-12-02 15:37:16 -0800, Peter Clark
said:

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:30:37 -0500, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"F. Baum" wrote in message
...
On

Dec 2, 11:32 am, wrote:

There's been an AD against the Caravan for more than a year
(2006-06-06) that was recently superseded by 2007-10-15, perhaps
driven by this accident. It seems that it doesn't matter that ADs are
issued; they have to be modified or amended or superseded to make
people sit up and take problems seriously. The Caravan has long had a
history of poor ice performance and anyone flying one and staying
current with aviation should know that.

Dan, thanks for posting something aviation related on this thread (As
opposed to Jay's OT BS). It has been a long time since I have flown a
Caravan so I am not going to try to be an expert here. Unfortunatly
the Caravan isnt the only Turboprop with poor icing performance
(Remember the ATR). There are several others that I have flown that
are downright scary in icing conditions. Maybe it is an inherent
problem in Turboprpops. Thanks for the link.
F Baum

The airplane is NOT approved for flight into *known* icing conditions.
So when a pilot finds himself in those conditions
in one of these planes, Cessna is to blame if he/she screws up and crashes...

The Cessna Model 208 and 208B Pilot’s Operating Handbook (POH) and
FAA-approved Airplane Flight Manual (AFM)Supplement S1 "Known Icing
Euipment" begs to differ.

I will have to check my copy of it if and when I ever manage to get
back to the office. That is, after we get the flood water out of the
house and the roads are clear. :-)

Yea, looks like the whole Northwest is a mess.

I could have sworn that it was not certified for known ice.

Yours might not be properly equipped for known icing (it aparantly is
a factory/aftermarket option), but the type is. There are references
to FIKI in the TCDS.

Morgans wrote:
But all it will take is one spill to do great harm. A spill is possible
for
any person that walks out with coffee that hot.
And it takes only one drink to impair someone's judgment and motor skills
enough to have a serious accident and kill someone.


The big point is that the seller of the coffee has in his power the
ability to make a safer product, and does not take the opportunity.
There is some responsibility because of that fact.
As does the seller of alcoholic drinks. Think O-Douls. There is no need
to sell unsafe drinks that contain alcohol.

I have no idea why you have such a hard on about this subject, and for my
points, but your arguments have descended into the illogical and absurd.

It was hard to keep up with you in regard to lack of logic, especially
given my education and experience, but I was trying! :-)

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote in
news
Morgans wrote:
But all it will take is one spill to do great harm. A spill is
possible for
any person that walks out with coffee that hot.
And it takes only one drink to impair someone's judgment and motor
skills enough to have a serious accident and kill someone.


The big point is that the seller of the coffee has in his power the
ability to make a safer product, and does not take the opportunity.
There is some responsibility because of that fact.
As does the seller of alcoholic drinks. Think O-Douls. There is no
need to sell unsafe drinks that contain alcohol.

I have no idea why you have such a hard on about this subject, and
for my
points, but your arguments have descended into the illogical and
absurd.

It was hard to keep up with you in regard to lack of logic, especially
given my education and experience, but I was trying! :-)

Matt


You're always trying.

Bertie

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:30:56 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote:


It's not the schools its the parents.


Umm...the parents that came though public schools?



I've seen parents come in to find
out why the TEACHER made a mistake and Johnny got a B.

My wife's a dedicated teacher. I hear it every day. 8^(


And the teachers that have been telling parents, for years now, to "Shut
up...we're the experts" hasan't had an effect?

I remember when they gave teachers the same tests they were giving their
students, the teachers failed...miserablly.

I have, though, been to my kids school to ask the teacher why a science
question was a single sentence 115 worlds long, and why a friend of our,
with an MS degree from Princeton, could not figure out the problem.

That's just ONE instance.
Those are good parent questions, and they should be asked. The ones
that are not good are the ones that question poor grades even if the kid
didn't come to school, didn't do the make up work, didn't do homework
and flunked the test. Then the teacher gets in trouble because the kid
failed.

Dedication is nice, but that's about all - it will not give students even an
ounce of knowledge or ability to comprehend the world.

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:28:03 GMT, kontiki

The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.


My wife didn't do it that way.

She worked for a Fortune 50 corporation, then ran the office for her
parent's 180+ employee asbestos and lead abatement company, then
decided to teach elementary school. She took her first teaching job
@ 37.

Her elementary school coworkers include a couple who worked for an oil
company in Saudi Arabia for 20 years (first taught in their 50's), an
ex advertising sales executive (42, as a first year teacher), and a
former Comair pilot.
Yeah, in our local school system a number of our teachers are retired
military. It's affordable to be a teacher if you are pulling a pension :-).

Margy

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:58:46 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:


And your point?


Bad parents have unteachable kids. The criminals I mentioned...


I know a kid whose dad spent years in the state pen and was later killed by
a SWAT team. He graduated third in his class of over 400.


Parents who care, and are involved, have successful kids. The
successful immigrants...

I'll bet the same thing would have happened to you that would have
happened to me if we brought home an "F". Today, it's not like that.


Many times an "F" is deserved. As many times the teacher would have also
gotten an "F". When they gave math teachers the same math tests, the average
grade was 60%, with 70% being a failing grade. It's nearly the rule, rather
than the exception.

Given the absolute irrationality and indoctrination coming from schools,
would more attentive parents make that much of a dent? Would it make the
psychosis coming from schools go away?

No matter how attentive parents are, "whole word reading", for example,
isn't going to make kids good readers. Would it make schools less likely to
spread Global Warming bull****?



Ah, you have reached the real issue. Fad teaching to meet demands of
"make these kids do xyz, better, faster, earlier, etc." Whole word
reading is valid, as is phonics, as is whole language. Of course the
problem is many people (parents, politicians, etc.) won't believe there
isn't a "good way" to teach reading. Not all kids can learn to read
using whole word, but some kids can only learn using whole word, same
with phonics, same with whole language. But, IMHO as long as they learn
to read well enough to pass the written for the private ticket, I don't
care how they did it.

Margy

Maxwell wrote:
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Matt W. Barrow" wrote


Then grab your butt.

(I'll not wait for more of Morgan's adolesant alibis.)

You should really learn how to post, because most of what your post
attributed to Jay were my words.

You don't have to worry about me responding to you on the subject of
education.

Your views are not worth my consideration, as they are so biased, and
worthless.

You should really consider going back to school at your private school, so
you could learn to spell adolescent, too.
--
Jim in NC


I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg The
phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde
Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the
olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a
porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by
istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought
slpeling was ipmorantt!


Thanks, I needed that. I once had a student (special ed) who could not
read (sound out words) at all. We'd gone through all sorts of methods
with him, but the weird thing was I had him 'read' a story, out loud
and he managed to sound out about 20% of the words, but when a student
who was out of the room came in and I asked him to fill her in on what
she had missed he recited the entire section with 95% word for word
accuracy. He couldn't read, but he was smart.

wrote:
Its possible that public schools could be eliminated entirely if the
number of people who cannot afford private schools is not large. Low
income families could then be given coupons paid for by taxpayer money
that can be redeemed for education in private schools. All this
assumes that if public schools are eliminated gradually, private
schools will spring up to fill a market need and the total costs are
going to be the same in the long run but with a better quality of
education. Taxes would also need to be adjusted to reflect the fact
that the government is no longer funding public schools.

Aound here private schools run anywhere from $20,000 to $35,000 a year
and the systems that spent the most per pupil spend less than $7,000. If
the taxpayers give coupons for private schools rather than fund the
public schools taxes would have to go up about $20,000 per student. Are
you going to vote for that tax increase?

Margy

On 2007-12-06 15:27:04 -0800, Peter Clark
said:

The Cessna Model 208 and 208B Pilot’s Operating Handbook (POH) and
FAA-approved Airplane Flight Manual (AFM)Supplement S1 "Known Icing
Euipment" begs to differ.

I will have to check my copy of it if and when I ever manage to get
back to the office. That is, after we get the flood water out of the
house and the roads are clear. :-)

Yea, looks like the whole Northwest is a mess.

Well, we at least have one lane open into town, now. Great. I need
garden hose, wading boots, another floor squeegee, and my pressure
washer repaired. I also need a new pair of pants. We also need to talk
to some carpet people, I suppose. The cedar paneling in my office is
shot, too. And -- I still have Christmas shopping to do. Probably do
that online. We also have a contractor coming tomorrow with his Bobcat
to clear the remaining silt off the driveway and start excavating the
lawn.


I could have sworn that it was not certified for known ice.

Yours might not be properly equipped for known icing (it aparantly is
a factory/aftermarket option), but the type is. There are references
to FIKI in the TCDS.

I wish I actually had a Caravan. I was seriously considering one a few
years ago.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor