will the US military power dominate the world

Wow, talk about cultural ignorance! For nearly every American, having their
own
transportation is a benifit, not a burden. I drove two hours last weekend to
visit my sister in college. I *loved* the drive! The scenary was beautiful, I
cranked up my car stereo, bought a 20 oz. soda (which eventually caused me to
stop on my trip) and relaxed. It was me, my 8 cylinder car and a fairly open
highway. I didn't have to make multiple stops (one to redeposit my soda),
didn't have to sit next to a guy smoking one cigarette after another while
listening to a screeming 2 year old. Even if I had the option of public
transportation, I would have driven. Your ignorance of Americans, our
passions
and our way of life is glaring.


I'll also add that I rented a car when I visited Europe earlier in the month
and if you're sticking with public transportation you're missing some great
scenary as well. I drove from Stuttgart to Verdun on the major highways, not
much to see. However, I drove from Verdun to Mons on small back roads. What
great scenary and as a 20th Century European history student (one BA, finishing
MA) I was fasinated by the scenary and the historical signifigance of the sites
I was viewing.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

BUFDRVR wrote:

Wow, talk about cultural ignorance! For nearly every American, having their
own
transportation is a benifit, not a burden. I drove two hours last weekend to
visit my sister in college. I *loved* the drive! The scenary was beautiful, I
cranked up my car stereo, bought a 20 oz. soda (which eventually caused me to
stop on my trip) and relaxed. It was me, my 8 cylinder car and a fairly open
highway. I didn't have to make multiple stops (one to redeposit my soda),
didn't have to sit next to a guy smoking one cigarette after another while
listening to a screeming 2 year old. Even if I had the option of public
transportation, I would have driven. Your ignorance of Americans, our
passions
and our way of life is glaring.

I'll also add that I rented a car when I visited Europe earlier in the month
and if you're sticking with public transportation you're missing some great
scenary as well. I drove from Stuttgart to Verdun on the major highways, not
much to see. However, I drove from Verdun to Mons on small back roads. What
great scenary and as a 20th Century European history student (one BA, finishing
MA) I was fasinated by the scenary and the historical signifigance of the sites
I was viewing.

Transport is one area I'd say we Americans have missed the boat on.

Every time I'm in Europe, I grow to love the public transport system
more and more, and wish we Americans hadn't destroyed our public transport
infrastructure.

You don't have to wait long for a train or a bus; stations are usually placed
right in the heart of tourist attractions and accommodation, just as it used to
be in the US until post-WWII.

A car is a wonderful gadget, but it is responsible for a lot of social
destruction in the US IMHO. Never mind pollution concerns, just the social
ones. Suburbia, destruction of city centers, traffic congestion,
depersonalization and even fostering of anti-social behavior.

No doubt the car is a wonderful mode of personal transport freedom. Go when
you want at your own pace. Too bad we could not have merged Euro and American
transport paradigms into one. Use the train or bus for our normal, day to day
work/living needs, then hop into the car and head out to Monument Valley or
visit the sis' at college when the opportunity arose.


SMH

car is a wonderful gadget, but it is responsible for a lot of social
destruction in the US IMHO. Never mind pollution concerns, just the social
ones. Suburbia, destruction of city centers, traffic congestion,
depersonalization and even fostering of anti-social behavior.

Its almost impossible to disagree.

Use the train or bus for our normal, day to day
work/living needs, then hop into the car and head out to Monument Valley or
visit the sis' at college when the opportunity arose.

Unless you you visit your sister or head out to Monument Valley everday,it
would be a very expensive investment.

Denyav wrote:

Use the train or bus for our normal, day to day
work/living needs, then hop into the car and head out to Monument Valley or
visit the sis' at college when the opportunity arose.

Unless you you visit your sister or head out to Monument Valley everday,it
would be a very expensive investment.

Not every day, but surely every weekend. Doesn't have to be somewhere
grandiose. Even someplace 200 miles away is within "day trip" range
for myself, and many Americans.

A car makes it possible, and it's a nice quality enhancement to ones life.


SMH

car is a wonderful gadget, but it is responsible for a lot of social
destruction in the US IMHO. Never mind pollution concerns, just the social
ones. Suburbia, destruction of city centers, traffic congestion,
depersonalization and even fostering of anti-social behavior.

Yeah, freedom is a terrible thing. We need more public transport. Doesn't it
make you feel good to rob Peter so Paul can ride the bus (monorail/light
rail/cable car/ferry/underground)?

-- Charlie Springer

Regnirps wrote:

car is a wonderful gadget, but it is responsible for a lot of social
destruction in the US IMHO. Never mind pollution concerns, just the social
ones. Suburbia, destruction of city centers, traffic congestion,
depersonalization and even fostering of anti-social behavior.

Yeah, freedom is a terrible thing. We need more public transport. Doesn't it
make you feel good to rob Peter so Paul can ride the bus (monorail/light
rail/cable car/ferry/underground)?

Yes that's what is being done in the name of diversity in transport choices.

But that's the sort of thing government does. Wile *most* car infrastructure
costs (roads, bridges) come from fuel taxes, not all of it does. Some comes
from local property or state taxes which is in effect a type of robbery.

But given automobile users aren't paying the *full* cost of automobile usage,
we're all passing the buck when we pay to drive our cars to some degree.

Health costs associated with pollution being the biggie, and car use is a
significant part of that.

I'm very much in favor of stealing money from the fuel tax fund to support
bus, train transport, and especially the conversion or "banking" of rail
corridors into bike lanes and paths. It's good long term policy.


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote in
:

Regnirps wrote:

car is a wonderful gadget, but it is responsible for a lot of
social
destruction in the US IMHO. Never mind pollution concerns, just the
social ones. Suburbia, destruction of city centers, traffic
congestion, depersonalization and even fostering of anti-social
behavior.

Yeah, freedom is a terrible thing. We need more public transport.
Doesn't it make you feel good to rob Peter so Paul can ride the bus
(monorail/light rail/cable car/ferry/underground)?

Yes that's what is being done in the name of diversity in transport
choices.

But that's the sort of thing government does. Wile *most* car
infrastructure costs (roads, bridges) come from fuel taxes, not all of
it does. Some comes from local property or state taxes which is in
effect a type of robbery.

Except that even those without autos benefit from roads;fire,medical,and
police arrive by motor vehicle,food,medicines and other consumer goods are
delivered by road transport.IMO,no robbery.

Or do you want the EMTs to wait for the next tram,and then walk the rest of
the way to your home when you are in urgent need of medical care?
(carrying all their kit,what little they can.)



--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
jyanik-at-kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:

Except that even those without autos benefit from roads;fire,medical,and
police arrive by motor vehicle,food,medicines and other consumer goods are
delivered by road transport.IMO,no robbery.

What about people with no children paying for schools? People without boats
paying for public boat ramps? Paying for government to insure people who live
of flood plains or barrier island? People who don't care for music paying for
summer concerts on the town common?

There's always someone who isn't going to like having their tax dollars spent
on something. It is effective robbery for them, even if there is a public
good in it somewhere.

Or do you want the EMTs to wait for the next tram,and then walk the rest of
the way to your home when you are in urgent need of medical care?
(carrying all their kit,what little they can.)

I don't think there is any shortage of roads in the US. Perhaps ones with
too many potholes, but ones that can be driven for public service if needed.


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote:
snip

But given automobile users aren't paying the *full* cost of automobile usage,
we're all passing the buck when we pay to drive our cars to some degree.

Health costs associated with pollution being the biggie, and car use is a
significant part of that.

I'm very much in favor of stealing money from the fuel tax fund to support
bus, train transport, and especially the conversion or "banking" of rail
corridors into bike lanes and paths. It's good long term policy.

Hmmm. I'll bet a good analysis would show the health benefits of auto transport
far outweigh the health costs, especially when compared to realistic
alternatives. There used to be 30,000 gallons of horse urine spilled in New
York City every day and though car collisions are dangerous, they don't kick
you in the head.

The improved earning power and standard of living allowed by independent autos
undoubtedly improves health care affordability and availablity.

Besides, not only does the train refuse to stop at the grocery store on the way
home, there is no place to put a weeks goods if it did. Worst of all, the train
only goes where the tracks go. What do you do when jobs and preferred types of
housing shift? Around here (Seattle area) the local annointed dream up ways to
penalize those who want to live outside "Rapid Transit" corridors.

Oh, yeah. Those old rail beds are almost allways on easments through private
property that is to be returned to the owner's use if the rails are removed.
The Legislatures get involved and steal the land for that massive number of
people who want to bike to work in the rain through the back yards of the lower
income families.

-- Charlie Springer

In article , says...
Regnirps wrote:

car is a wonderful gadget, but it is responsible for a lot of social
destruction in the US IMHO. Never mind pollution concerns, just the social
ones. Suburbia, destruction of city centers, traffic congestion,
depersonalization and even fostering of anti-social behavior.

Yeah, freedom is a terrible thing. We need more public transport. Doesn't it
make you feel good to rob Peter so Paul can ride the bus (monorail/light
rail/cable car/ferry/underground)?

Yes that's what is being done in the name of diversity in transport choices.

But that's the sort of thing government does. Wile *most* car infrastructure
costs (roads, bridges) come from fuel taxes, not all of it does. Some comes
from local property or state taxes which is in effect a type of robbery.

But given automobile users aren't paying the *full* cost of automobile usage,
we're all passing the buck when we pay to drive our cars to some degree.

Health costs associated with pollution being the biggie, and car use is a
significant part of that.

I'm very much in favor of stealing money from the fuel tax fund to support
bus, train transport, and especially the conversion or "banking" of rail
corridors into bike lanes and paths. It's good long term policy.



However my city has extended that policy to converting road lanes to
bicycle lanes. Now we have unused portions of road and the traffic goes
even slower, producing even more polution.
--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.