FYI: Dec 12 MythBusters: Airplane Hour

Ross wrote in news:X5g8j.3$E14.1@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Ross wrote in
:


F. Baum wrote:

On Dec 13, 12:06 am, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:


What they showed with landing the NASA simulator is that any person
with some level experience with a cockpit display can control an
airliner. Most FAA controllers would not have the experience to
describe the cockpit and give useful instruction in how to manually
fly with the autopilot or where the switches are located, or how to
use the radio to even start the "rescue."

Maybe they should have an in-flight movie before each take-off on
how
to fly the airplane, do you think TSA would allow that?


Jim, I caught just the parts of the show where J and A tried to land
the plane with some coaching from the sim instructor (Mainly to see
how the instructor would do this). These portions of the show were
amazingly brief (Possibly for security reasons ?) . The stuff they
did show was scary and I doubt they could have gotten awhay with
some
of it in a real plane. I do watch the show for its "Infotaiment"
value but I remain unconvinced that someone could actually be talked
down in an airliner. I think it has been tried a time or two in GA
after the pilot became incapacitated.
FB

I had the opportunity to "fly" a American Airlines F-100 in their
full
motion simulator with an instructor. He was able to talk me through a
landing at O'Hare Airport without crashing the airplane. However,
without someone familiar with the aircraft the intimidation of the
lights, buttons, dials, radios, switches, etc would overwhelm anyone.



And that's only a little fartbox of a jet!


Bertie


Yea, but it was fun for me since it was my first time!

Oh yeah. I didn't mean that. but here's an experienced pilot in a
relatively simple jet having a bit of a time doing it and yet anthony
thinks he can do it because he made his own sim out of cornflakes boxes
and a playstation..

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Ross wrote in news:X5g8j.3$E14.1@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Ross wrote in
:


F. Baum wrote:

On Dec 13, 12:06 am, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:


What they showed with landing the NASA simulator is that any person
with some level experience with a cockpit display can control an
airliner. Most FAA controllers would not have the experience to
describe the cockpit and give useful instruction in how to manually
fly with the autopilot or where the switches are located, or how to
use the radio to even start the "rescue."

Maybe they should have an in-flight movie before each take-off on
how
to fly the airplane, do you think TSA would allow that?

Jim, I caught just the parts of the show where J and A tried to land
the plane with some coaching from the sim instructor (Mainly to see
how the instructor would do this). These portions of the show were
amazingly brief (Possibly for security reasons ?) . The stuff they
did show was scary and I doubt they could have gotten awhay with
some
of it in a real plane. I do watch the show for its "Infotaiment"
value but I remain unconvinced that someone could actually be talked
down in an airliner. I think it has been tried a time or two in GA
after the pilot became incapacitated.
FB
I had the opportunity to "fly" a American Airlines F-100 in their
full
motion simulator with an instructor. He was able to talk me through a
landing at O'Hare Airport without crashing the airplane. However,
without someone familiar with the aircraft the intimidation of the
lights, buttons, dials, radios, switches, etc would overwhelm anyone.


And that's only a little fartbox of a jet!


Bertie

Yea, but it was fun for me since it was my first time!

Oh yeah. I didn't mean that. but here's an experienced pilot in a
relatively simple jet having a bit of a time doing it and yet anthony
thinks he can do it because he made his own sim out of cornflakes boxes
and a playstation..

Bertie


Reminds me of my first time in a full flight simulator, 12 years ago.

During the course of my pilot training, the school organized an visit to
a flight simulator manufacturer.

Each student got a chance to shoot an approach in a CRJ FFS. At that
point of our training, we all had over 100 hours, all had our private
pilot license and where on our way to our commercial.

The guy trying it out just before me was doing the bush-pilot
specialization, and had time in light singles, and in a Cessna 185, on
wheel and on float. He overcontroled the aircraft so much on short
final, he basically rolled it and crashed on the runway.

Me (with multi-engine experience), I managed to put the aircraft down
correctly, only to roll pass the end of the runway thanks to not
applying enough brake pressure and/or engaging the thrust reverser too late.

Goes to show that it's not as easy as it might seem.

RdKetchup wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Ross wrote in news:X5g8j.3$E14.1@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Ross wrote in
:


F. Baum wrote:

On Dec 13, 12:06 am, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:


What they showed with landing the NASA simulator is that any
person with some level experience with a cockpit display can
control an airliner. Most FAA controllers would not have the
experience to describe the cockpit and give useful instruction
in how to manually fly with the autopilot or where the switches
are located, or how to use the radio to even start the "rescue."

Maybe they should have an in-flight movie before each take-off
on
how
to fly the airplane, do you think TSA would allow that?

Jim, I caught just the parts of the show where J and A tried to
land the plane with some coaching from the sim instructor (Mainly
to see how the instructor would do this). These portions of the
show were amazingly brief (Possibly for security reasons ?) . The
stuff they did show was scary and I doubt they could have gotten
awhay with
some
of it in a real plane. I do watch the show for its "Infotaiment"
value but I remain unconvinced that someone could actually be
talked down in an airliner. I think it has been tried a time or
two in GA after the pilot became incapacitated.
FB
I had the opportunity to "fly" a American Airlines F-100 in their
full
motion simulator with an instructor. He was able to talk me
through a landing at O'Hare Airport without crashing the airplane.
However, without someone familiar with the aircraft the
intimidation of the lights, buttons, dials, radios, switches, etc
would overwhelm anyone.


And that's only a little fartbox of a jet!


Bertie

Yea, but it was fun for me since it was my first time!

Oh yeah. I didn't mean that. but here's an experienced pilot in a
relatively simple jet having a bit of a time doing it and yet anthony
thinks he can do it because he made his own sim out of cornflakes
boxes and a playstation..

Bertie


Reminds me of my first time in a full flight simulator, 12 years ago.

During the course of my pilot training, the school organized an visit
to a flight simulator manufacturer.

Each student got a chance to shoot an approach in a CRJ FFS. At that
point of our training, we all had over 100 hours, all had our private
pilot license and where on our way to our commercial.

The guy trying it out just before me was doing the bush-pilot
specialization, and had time in light singles, and in a Cessna 185, on
wheel and on float. He overcontroled the aircraft so much on short
final, he basically rolled it and crashed on the runway.

Me (with multi-engine experience), I managed to put the aircraft down
correctly, only to roll pass the end of the runway thanks to not
applying enough brake pressure and/or engaging the thrust reverser too
late.

Goes to show that it's not as easy as it might seem.


Yeah, you don't have to be superman, but Anthony's suggestions are just
ludicrous.

Bertie

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:09:24 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

snip

Reminds me of my first time in a full flight simulator, 12 years ago.

During the course of my pilot training, the school organized an visit
to a flight simulator manufacturer.

Each student got a chance to shoot an approach in a CRJ FFS. At that
point of our training, we all had over 100 hours, all had our private
pilot license and where on our way to our commercial.

The guy trying it out just before me was doing the bush-pilot
specialization, and had time in light singles, and in a Cessna 185, on
wheel and on float. He overcontroled the aircraft so much on short
final, he basically rolled it and crashed on the runway.

Me (with multi-engine experience), I managed to put the aircraft down
correctly, only to roll pass the end of the runway thanks to not
applying enough brake pressure and/or engaging the thrust reverser too
late.

Goes to show that it's not as easy as it might seem.


Yeah, you don't have to be superman, but Anthony's suggestions are just
ludicrous.

Bertie

Don't know what he suggested, because I don't read any of his stuff.

My first experience in a sim was allegedly in '87. Lear 24 series. Am
not a pro pilot, can't tell you what "generation" it was. I do
remember that in the same FSafety (across the street from Lear in
Wichita) they had just installed their first sim that needed literally
a hole in the ceiling to clear the movement of the "cabin".

This one was not that complex.

I took off in VFR/night conditions went "around the patch" at about
3.000 feet, and landed after about a 5 mile final.

At that time, my flying experience was what I had learned flying along
right seat in whatever piston-pounder was hauling auto parts wherever
in the wee hours.

Allegedly did the same thing in a BAe 800A sim ("later" generation,
lots more movement, still night only) about 7 years ago in Wilmington.

On that take-off, however, was in the sh** at around 800 feet AGL
'cause the instructor hadn't cleaned things up before I took off. I
levelled off at 3000 feet 90 degrees left of the runway heading until
he magically turned the weather back into VFR.

Circled back and landed. Scariest part of that "flight" was when the
instructor turned the motion off on the sim while I was turning
base-to-final, instant nausea. At that time I allegedly had a PPSEL
and about 125 hours in my logbook, and a lot more time goofing around
in the right (and left) seat of whatever piston-pounder was hauling
auto parts wherever in the wee hours.

Can't claim to have much knowledge of the systems/cockpit layout/etc.,
'cause in both cases had just finished up a maintenance initial on a
new-to-me type, and "flew" after spending time doing sim ground runs,
etc. etc.

Fukk Anthony, but don't assume because someone doesn't earn his living
as a pilot, he can't "fly" or that playing even in a jen-yoo-wine sim
necessarily means jakk****e...

Regards;

TC

wrote:
Fukk Anthony, but don't assume because someone doesn't earn his living
as a pilot, he can't "fly" or that playing even in a jen-yoo-wine sim
necessarily means jakk****e...


Like this pica****pstnosenspost?

wrote in
:

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:09:24 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

snip

Reminds me of my first time in a full flight simulator, 12 years
ago.

During the course of my pilot training, the school organized an
visit
to a flight simulator manufacturer.

Each student got a chance to shoot an approach in a CRJ FFS. At
that
point of our training, we all had over 100 hours, all had our
private
pilot license and where on our way to our commercial.

The guy trying it out just before me was doing the bush-pilot
specialization, and had time in light singles, and in a Cessna 185,
on
wheel and on float. He overcontroled the aircraft so much on short
final, he basically rolled it and crashed on the runway.

Me (with multi-engine experience), I managed to put the aircraft
down
correctly, only to roll pass the end of the runway thanks to not
applying enough brake pressure and/or engaging the thrust reverser
too
late.

Goes to show that it's not as easy as it might seem.


Yeah, you don't have to be superman, but Anthony's suggestions are
just
ludicrous.

Bertie

Don't know what he suggested, because I don't read any of his stuff.

My first experience in a sim was allegedly in '87. Lear 24 series. Am
not a pro pilot, can't tell you what "generation" it was. I do
remember that in the same FSafety (across the street from Lear in
Wichita) they had just installed their first sim that needed literally
a hole in the ceiling to clear the movement of the "cabin".

This one was not that complex.

I took off in VFR/night conditions went "around the patch" at about
3.000 feet, and landed after about a 5 mile final.

At that time, my flying experience was what I had learned flying along
right seat in whatever piston-pounder was hauling auto parts wherever
in the wee hours.

Allegedly did the same thing in a BAe 800A sim ("later" generation,
lots more movement, still night only) about 7 years ago in Wilmington.

On that take-off, however, was in the sh** at around 800 feet AGL
'cause the instructor hadn't cleaned things up before I took off. I
levelled off at 3000 feet 90 degrees left of the runway heading until
he magically turned the weather back into VFR.

Circled back and landed. Scariest part of that "flight" was when the
instructor turned the motion off on the sim while I was turning
base-to-final, instant nausea. At that time I allegedly had a PPSEL
and about 125 hours in my logbook, and a lot more time goofing around
in the right (and left) seat of whatever piston-pounder was hauling
auto parts wherever in the wee hours.

Can't claim to have much knowledge of the systems/cockpit layout/etc.,
'cause in both cases had just finished up a maintenance initial on a
new-to-me type, and "flew" after spending time doing sim ground runs,
etc. etc.

Fukk Anthony, but don't assume because someone doesn't earn his living
as a pilot, he can't "fly" or that playing even in a jen-yoo-wine sim
necessarily means jakk****e...

I don;t assume either. It can be done. I know because I have had private
pilots in the sim and got them down. In fact, the best sim student I had
(real airliner sim, not MSFS) was a 16 year old RC pilot who had never
been in an airplane at the time (he;s a world class competition glider
pilot now, though)
What anthony is suggesting is that he could land an airliner using the
automatics because he has been palying with flight sim.
I know he couldn't.

For one thing, he'd try to tell Robert Stack on the other end of the
radio how it should be done.
He'd have to take his finger off the Xmitter long enough to get the
instructions and that is obviously impossible


Bertie