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The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Ramy

Ramy wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Dec 15, 6:14 am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist on the panel when something goes wrong or distructs you.
After all, this is when we get in trouble, when something else goes
wrong.

Ramy

On Dec 16, 12:12 am, Ramy wrote:

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist

T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G. P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E.

As Henry says: "Take the tow."

As Pete says: "Take the CFIG." At least once a year.

Practice your emergency procedures (no flap landings, no spoiler
landings). What do you think the military pilots do most of the
time? What do commercial pilots expect when they take their simulator
rides (at least once a year, sometimes twice a year)?

Make your own checklist. I've gotten in the habit of doing that for
each airplane (and each glider) I fly. As a Flight Test Guy, this
saves lives, saves money and makes the difference between success and
failure. The sun is setting on these items, but how many diamonds
would have been ACHIEVED if the checklist (the usually non-existent
checklist) had included the following two items:
1.) Wind barograph.
2.) Load film in camera, wind camera.

How many lives (and gliders) would have been saved if these had been
on the checklist?
A.) Positive Control Check - Elevator
B.) Positive Control Check - Rudder
C.) Positive Control Check - Aileron Left
D.) Positive Control Check - Aileron Right
E.) Positive Control Check - Spoiler Right
F.) Positive Control Check - Spoiler Left

Yup, I've been a dummy: took off once with the static ports still
taped over. Knew what to do: turned it into a pattern tow and a
practice "emergency" landing. Untaped the statics, did a (more
thorough) complete walk-around (preflight), got in line and took the
relight for a damn fine flight. And statics got added to the
preflight checklist!!! BTW, that's not the only time I've been a
dummy -- those that know me ...

A checklist is no substitute for airmanship. RAS posting is no
substitute for getting current AND competent in your machine. It
seems that too many of us get one or two flights in at the beginning
of the season, and then go striking out hunting diamonds (yeah, me
too). We should spend more time locally, with or without the Constant
Flight Interruptor aboard. We should practice more landings, short/
soft field with obstacle landings...simulated landing out landings.

After you use a checklist for a while, you'll find that they're
terrific security blankets, and help you relax more during the
flight. Keep the mnemonics (USTALL, TWA, GUMP) as safety nets. When
you forget your checklist, and feel brave enough to fly without it,
make sure you touch and say every item within your reach (spoilers,
release, flaps, gear, relief tube...).

The pros fly with checklists. The FAA condones the discipline. Many
accident investigation reports cite, as one of the causes, the crew's
failure to follow the appropriate checklist.

It's at least as important as your parachute. Hopefully, you'll use
the checklist more often.

-Pete
#309

On 16 Dec, 08:44, 309 wrote:

Yup, I've been a dummy: took off once with the static ports still
taped over. ... And statics got added to the
preflight checklist!!!

After you use a checklist for a while, you'll find that they're
terrific security blankets, and help you relax more during the
flight.

Security blankets are not necessarily a Good Thing. After all, it
seems you may have missed your taped over static ports because they
weren't on your check list ... what's going to be next? Not that I'm
knocking the whole idea, you understand - I have a nice laminated list
of rigging and derigging stuff.

The pros fly with checklists. The FAA condones the discipline. Many
accident investigation reports cite, as one of the causes, the crew's
failure to follow the appropriate checklist.

The pros are flying vastly more complicated aircraft and have vastly
more time available to read checklists.

Ian

Ian wrote:


The pros are flying vastly more complicated aircraft...

True, though the pilot/aircraft interface gets simpler all the
time--until you get to the programming part.



...and have vastly more time available to read checklists.

False. Though we may have a crew to share the load, it takes more time
to work with a crew. The time available to provide a solution is often
inversely related to the size of the problem.

In single-seat aircraft you are generally going very fast, have even
more complexity, and often feel that you don't have enough hands to do
all the things that need to be done in the time available, which can be
so short as to seem virtually non-existent. That's why there are
ejection seats--wonderful "zero/zero" rocket-powered seats.

If the above sounds to some like an argument against reliance on
checklists, in fact my position is that checklists must be first and
foremost practical--short, sufficient, and sometimes memorized--but they
should always be used.

Checklists work, and AOA works. Though the use of each must be adapted
to the ship, the mission, and the circumstances, I suspect those who
avoid or deride either one do so for their own emotional reasons and not
out of a real understanding of their value.


Jack

On Dec 16, 1:39 am, Ian wrote:
Security blankets are not necessarily a Good Thing. After all, it
seems you may have missed your taped over static ports because they
weren't on your check list ... what's going to be next? Not that I'm
knocking the whole idea, you understand - I have a nice laminated list
of rigging and derigging stuff.

Okay, Ian, I'll fess up: that static port episode was before I
religiously used checklists in anything that weighed less than 4,000
pounds. It became one of those pivotal (thankfully non-fatal and
inexpensive) events that convinced me that it doesn't matter how
simple the aircraft is. As Max Stanley is quoted: "The Piper Cub is
the safest aircraft in the world -- it can just barely kill you."

Religious use of a checklist doesn't necessarily mean plastering the
sides of your cockpit, and spending more time looking at the paper
than the scenery: Reviewing a checklist prior to the flight (even the
night before) can re-etch the memory of how to do it right, and
quickly. And frequently, you go through the motions (using cranial or
muscle memory) and then REVIEW the checklist -- and sometimes catch
the item that was forgotten.

P.S.: The mere act of WRITING a checklist helps you truly understand
the aircraft systems (simple or not), the proper operating procedures
(and perhaps a better "flow" of the steps than the manufacturer
originally suggested). The benefit of this remains -- although less
so -- even if you never use the list again. Look at pilots &
instructors who fly multiple types of aircraft: They use checklists
(sometimes very short ones that are referred to as "cheat sheets") so
they refresh their mind that this aircraft has a best L/D speed of y
and a min sink speed of x (or for power, Vx, Vy, Vglide, VLE, VLO,
Vfe, Vmc, Va, Vne, Vno). The "best" instructors share their cheat
sheets with their students, but implore (or force) their students to
fabricate their own.

P.P.S.: Jack is right: Big Iron Crews do NOT necessarily have more
time. Especially in Flight Test, I have witnessed where pre-briefing
a checklist made the difference between incident (safe return) and
disaster. During most normal operations they do have more time -- in
part thanks to orderly and well arranged checklists!

P.P.P.S: Yes, there's a checklist for thermalling: Somebody's
already in thermal: follow his direction of turn. Nobody else? Try
my luck to the left...

Last note: I haven't seen it quite so much with the major airlines
(except for basic aviation skills), but in the military there are
Emergency Procedures and there are BOLD FACE EMERGENCY PROCEDURES:
All pilots flying a given type are required to memorize Bold Face
procedures!

Okay, final note: If you look in all of the manuals, there is never
any additional procedures or writing after the word EJECT.

-Pete
#309

Pete, what does the mnenomic TWA stand for?

-John

On Dec 16, 3:44 am, 309 wrote:
Keep the mnemonics (USTALL, TWA, GUMP) as safety nets.

On Dec 16, 7:08 am, jcarlyle wrote:
Pete, what does the mnenomic TWA stand for?

-John

On Dec 16, 3:44 am, 309 wrote:

Keep the mnemonics (USTALL, TWA, GUMP) as safety nets.

TWA = Traffic, Wind, Altimeter (or Altitude)
GUMP = Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop (obviously for Power)
USTALL = Undercarriage, Speed, Trim, Airbrakes, Lookout, Land
see http://www.soaringsafety.org/images/ustall.jpg for a USTALL poster

I find myself using GUMP even in my 1-26...obviously completing that
checklist is very quick...and it prompts me to remember the other
two...which are similarly quick (Trim on a 1-26 is of marginal utility
on approach).

Nevertheless, they get me set up for safe landings...whatever I'm
flying!

-Pete