Bonanza (A36) Approach Speeds

wrote:

On Dec 17, 3:05 pm, Newps wrote:

wrote:

BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's insufficient
energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the descent.

What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts, no
power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.


I fly a 1947 Model 35 as well.

Not the same airplane as an A36, the topic of this thread.




Doesn't matter.

On Dec 17, 6:01 pm, Newps wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:05 pm, Newps wrote:

wrote:

BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's insufficient
energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the descent.

What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts, no
power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.

I fly a 1947 Model 35 as well.

Not the same airplane as an A36, the topic of this thread.

Doesn't matter.

Care to elaborate?

The A36 and Straight 35 are exactly the same, except for the different
wings, different weights, different powerplants, different CGs,
different loading envelopes, different gear, different prop governors,
different empennage, and a few thousand other minor differences.

I guess that doesn't matter?

Dan



Dan

wrote:
On Dec 17, 6:01 pm, Newps wrote:

wrote:

On Dec 17, 3:05 pm, Newps wrote:

wrote:

BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's insufficient
energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the descent.

What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts, no
power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.

I fly a 1947 Model 35 as well.

Not the same airplane as an A36, the topic of this thread.

Doesn't matter.


Care to elaborate?

The A36 and Straight 35 are exactly the same, except for the different
wings,

Wings are the same.



different weights,


The 36 weighs 31 pounds more than the same year model 35.

different powerplants,


Same powerplant as mine.



different CGs,
different loading envelopes,


Yes and it is beneficial.



different gear,


Same gear, just heavier duty than the straight 35, exactly the same as mine.


different prop governors,

Irrelevant.



different empennage,


Duh.



and a few thousand other minor differences.

I guess that doesn't matter?



No, it doesn't change the fact that at 70 knots you are not out of
elevator. I land at less than that speed, power off and it flares just
fine.

On Dec 17, 10:36 pm, Newps wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 17, 6:01 pm, Newps wrote:

wrote:

On Dec 17, 3:05 pm, Newps wrote:

wrote:

BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's insufficient
energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the descent.

What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts, no
power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.

I fly a 1947 Model 35 as well.

Not the same airplane as an A36, the topic of this thread.

Doesn't matter.

Care to elaborate?

The A36 and Straight 35 are exactly the same, except for the different
wings,

Wings are the same.

different weights,

The 36 weighs 31 pounds more than the same year model 35.

different powerplants,

Same powerplant as mine.

different CGs,
different loading envelopes,

Yes and it is beneficial.

different gear,

Same gear, just heavier duty than the straight 35, exactly the same as mine.

different prop governors,

Irrelevant.

different empennage,

Duh.

and a few thousand other minor differences.



I guess that doesn't matter?

No, it doesn't change the fact that at 70 knots you are not out of
elevator. I land at less than that speed, power off and it flares just
fine.

Please re-read the thread an you will see I am referring to a 1947
Model 35, which is significantly different in every respect I
mentioned.

I have not found that the A36 has enough energy left to flare and
arrest the descent at 70 KIAS.

Dan

The CG range on the A36 is very different from the 33/35 models. Without
passengers in the middle or rear, the CG is further fwd and the force
required to flare is greater.



wrote in message
...
| On Dec 17, 10:36 pm, Newps wrote:
| wrote:
| On Dec 17, 6:01 pm, Newps wrote:
|
| wrote:
|
| On Dec 17, 3:05 pm, Newps wrote:
|
| wrote:
|
| BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's
insufficient
| energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the
descent.
|
| What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts,
no
| power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.
|
| I fly a 1947 Model 35 as well.
|
| Not the same airplane as an A36, the topic of this thread.
|
| Doesn't matter.
|
| Care to elaborate?
|
| The A36 and Straight 35 are exactly the same, except for the different
| wings,
|
| Wings are the same.
|
| different weights,
|
| The 36 weighs 31 pounds more than the same year model 35.
|
| different powerplants,
|
| Same powerplant as mine.
|
| different CGs,
| different loading envelopes,
|
| Yes and it is beneficial.
|
| different gear,
|
| Same gear, just heavier duty than the straight 35, exactly the same as
mine.
|
| different prop governors,
|
| Irrelevant.
|
| different empennage,
|
| Duh.
|
| and a few thousand other minor differences.
|
|
|
| I guess that doesn't matter?
|
| No, it doesn't change the fact that at 70 knots you are not out of
| elevator. I land at less than that speed, power off and it flares just
| fine.
|
| Please re-read the thread an you will see I am referring to a 1947
| Model 35, which is significantly different in every respect I
| mentioned.
|
| I have not found that the A36 has enough energy left to flare and
| arrest the descent at 70 KIAS.
|
| Dan
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

The CG range on the A36 is very different from the 33/35 models. Without
passengers in the middle or rear, the CG is further fwd and the force
required to flare is greater.

The CG range is a little larger on the 36 but otherwise similar. With
pax only in front of the 35 the CG is near forward limit, same as the 36.

The 36/A36 front seats are a little in front of the fwd CG limit, in the
33/35 models all the seats are behind the fwd limit. Fuel is the only
weight you can add to the Bonanza to shift the CG forward and that means you
have to keep a minimum fuel as ballast since the CG moves aft as you burn
fuel. It is essential on all the Bonanza models to do a take-off and a
landing W&B. [A good idea in any airplane]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300
"Newps" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| The CG range on the A36 is very different from the 33/35 models.
Without
| passengers in the middle or rear, the CG is further fwd and the force
| required to flare is greater.
|
| The CG range is a little larger on the 36 but otherwise similar. With
| pax only in front of the 35 the CG is near forward limit, same as the 36.

A36 GW on same wing as 33 or 35, is 200 pounds greater.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| wrote:
| On Dec 17, 6:01 pm, Newps wrote:
|
| wrote:
|
| On Dec 17, 3:05 pm, Newps wrote:
|
| wrote:
|
| BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's
insufficient
| energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the descent.
|
| What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts, no
| power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.
|
| I fly a 1947 Model 35 as well.
|
| Not the same airplane as an A36, the topic of this thread.
|
| Doesn't matter.
|
|
| Care to elaborate?
|
| The A36 and Straight 35 are exactly the same, except for the different
| wings,
|
| Wings are the same.
|
|
|
| different weights,
|
|
| The 36 weighs 31 pounds more than the same year model 35.
|
| different powerplants,
|
|
| Same powerplant as mine.
|
|
|
| different CGs,
| different loading envelopes,
|
|
| Yes and it is beneficial.
|
|
|
| different gear,
|
|
| Same gear, just heavier duty than the straight 35, exactly the same as
mine.
|
|
| different prop governors,
|
| Irrelevant.
|
|
|
| different empennage,
|
|
| Duh.
|
|
|
| and a few thousand other minor differences.
|
| I guess that doesn't matter?
|
|
|
| No, it doesn't change the fact that at 70 knots you are not out of
| elevator. I land at less than that speed, power off and it flares just
| fine.
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

A36 GW on same wing as 33 or 35, is 200 pounds greater.

It can be.