2007 US Contest Rules Poll and Meeting Minutes

I'm writing a few "contest corners" for Soaring magazine to explain
this year's rule changes. The explanation for the new cylinder finish
penalty is on my webpage at

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.c...h_cylinder.htm

This will be in Feb Soaring, and more will follow.

John Cochrane

Looks like an excellent change to the circle finish procedure.

Sure wish it had been in effect last year! ;)

Good work, guys.

Kirk
66

Same comments as others. I can live with this.

Thanks to John Cochrane for the discussion on his Web page. One
question: could a pilot who's low on final glide enter the finish
cylinder below the floor, land out just short of the contest site, and
receive distance points MINUS a low finish penalty? That seems a bit
harsh but is how I interpret John's statement, below. I could be
mistaken:

"If there isn't even a weak thermal [on a marginal final glide that
winds up inside the cylinder but just short of the contest site], the
70 points you will lose on the finish, combined with the new larger
distance points, mean that there is less to be lost by landing in
that last nice field on this side of the trees."

I actually had trouble finding the part in the Rules where it says you
have to land back at the contest site to get speed points. You get a
finish time just by entering the cylinder without regard to where you
land:

10.9.3.3 The Finish Point, radius, and minimum height define a three-
dimensional Finish
Cylinder. A finish occurs when a sailplane enters the Finish Cylinder;
at least one fix must lie
within the cylinder. The finish time is taken as the interpolated time
the sailplane first
entered the Finish Cylinder.

But a later paragraph finally says you have to land back to complete
the task:

11.2.2.4 Task completion - If all turnpoints are valid, yield a scored
distance (Rule 11.2.3)
not less than the Standard Minimum Task Distance and the pilot
obtained a scored start
time, a finish time prior to finish closing and landed at the contest
site, then the pilot has
completed the task. Otherwise the task is incomplete.

OK, flying is over for me until next spring. I just don't want to be
worrying about this low on final glide next year.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

On Dec 18, 12:00 pm, Chip Bearden wrote:
Same comments as others. I can live with this.

Thanks to John Cochrane for the discussion on his Web page. One
question: could a pilot who's low on final glide enter the finish
cylinder below the floor, land out just short of the contest site, and
receive distance points MINUS a low finish penalty? That seems a bit
harsh but is how I interpret John's statement, below. I could be
mistaken:

"If there isn't even a weak thermal [on a marginal final glide that
winds up inside the cylinder but just short of the contest site], the
70 points you will lose on the finish, combined with the new larger
distance points, mean that there is less to be lost by landing in
that last nice field on this side of the trees."

I actually had trouble finding the part in the Rules where it says you
have to land back at the contest site to get speed points. You get a
finish time just by entering the cylinder without regard to where you
land:

10.9.3.3 The Finish Point, radius, and minimum height define a three-
dimensional Finish
Cylinder. A finish occurs when a sailplane enters the Finish Cylinder;
at least one fix must lie
within the cylinder. The finish time is taken as the interpolated time
the sailplane first
entered the Finish Cylinder.

But a later paragraph finally says you have to land back to complete
the task:

11.2.2.4 Task completion - If all turnpoints are valid, yield a scored
distance (Rule 11.2.3)
not less than the Standard Minimum Task Distance and the pilot
obtained a scored start
time, a finish time prior to finish closing and landed at the contest
site, then the pilot has
completed the task. Otherwise the task is incomplete.

OK, flying is over for me until next spring. I just don't want to be
worrying about this low on final glide next year.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Chip, this could get interesting! What is the definition of "the
contest site"? Out west, you could find an old WW2 airfield and
almost have the one mile finish circle within the airport boundaries.

Do you have to land on a designated runway? What about Ionia, where
landing on the infield (between paved runway and taxiway) is allowed?
Or landing on a ramp/taxiway/clear area after floating across the
fence?

Still a good start. Come on spring!

Good stuff for discussion around the virtual fireplace, while
consuming a non-virtual adult beverage...

Kirk
66

On Dec 18, 1:00 pm, Chip Bearden wrote:
Same comments as others. I can live with this.

Thanks to John Cochrane for the discussion on his Web page. One
question: could a pilot who's low on final glide enter the finish
cylinder below the floor, land out just short of the contest site, and
receive distance points MINUS a low finish penalty? That seems a bit
harsh but is how I interpret John's statement, below. I could be
mistaken:

"If there isn't even a weak thermal [on a marginal final glide that
winds up inside the cylinder but just short of the contest site], the
70 points you will lose on the finish, combined with the new larger
distance points, mean that there is less to be lost by landing in
that last nice field on this side of the trees."

I actually had trouble finding the part in the Rules where it says you
have to land back at the contest site to get speed points. You get a
finish time just by entering the cylinder without regard to where you
land:

10.9.3.3 The Finish Point, radius, and minimum height define a three-
dimensional Finish
Cylinder. A finish occurs when a sailplane enters the Finish Cylinder;
at least one fix must lie
within the cylinder. The finish time is taken as the interpolated time
the sailplane first
entered the Finish Cylinder.

But a later paragraph finally says you have to land back to complete
the task:

11.2.2.4 Task completion - If all turnpoints are valid, yield a scored
distance (Rule 11.2.3)
not less than the Standard Minimum Task Distance and the pilot
obtained a scored start
time, a finish time prior to finish closing and landed at the contest
site, then the pilot has
completed the task. Otherwise the task is incomplete.

OK, flying is over for me until next spring. I just don't want to be
worrying about this low on final glide next year.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

If you don't land on the contest site as defined by the CD, you get
disatnce points.
You get speed points by:
Finishing in the cylinder with plenty of energy like a "good boy:.
Or landing on the contest site after missing the bottom of the
cylinder
and getting speed points less the penalty fopr missing the bottom.
The
good news is that if you miss there is no reason to rush the landing
or do something
stupid, you just land safely. This is the essence of the change John
suggested.
UH

Come on, guys, play along. What I was "griping" about was the prospect
of arriving back really low, hitting the new finish cylinder just
above the trees and then dumping it into the last field before the
barbed wire fence around the airport. BB implies (well, he goes
further than that; you be the judge) that you would get distance
points only AND get banged with a low finish penalty. Depending on how
the new rule is implemented, you've scored a finish time because if
you'd floated across the fence, you would have completed the task. But
since you're sitting in the dirt staring up at the real finishers, the
rules say you haven't finished the task. So...distance points for the
non-completion minus a penalty for the low finish; in other words,
significantly fewer points that the guy who landed in the field behind
you who didn't get to the cylinder?

I'm not making this up; read below from BB's article (emphasis
added).

"...the 70 points you will lose on the finish, COMBINED WITH the new
larger
distance points, mean that there is less to be lost by landing in
that last nice field on this side of the trees."

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

On Dec 18, 4:28 pm, Chip Bearden wrote:
Come on, guys, play along. What I was "griping" about was the prospect
of arriving back really low, hitting the new finish cylinder just
above the trees and then dumping it into the last field before the
barbed wire fence around the airport. BB implies (well, he goes
further than that; you be the judge) that you would get distance
points only AND get banged with a low finish penalty. Depending on how
the new rule is implemented, you've scored a finish time because if
you'd floated across the fence, you would have completed the task. But
since you're sitting in the dirt staring up at the real finishers, the
rules say you haven't finished the task. So...distance points for the
non-completion minus a penalty for the low finish; in other words,
significantly fewer points that the guy who landed in the field behind
you who didn't get to the cylinder?

I'm not making this up; read below from BB's article (emphasis
added).

"...the 70 points you will lose on the finish, COMBINED WITH the new
larger
distance points, mean that there is less to be lost by landing in
that last nice field on this side of the trees."

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

It's in the sentance structure- He's really comparing the score of a 1
ft short finish to a
missed cylinder speed finish. The spread is less than before.
If you don't get the finish, you don't get the low finish penalty.
John's "social engineering" is intended to take away scoring
incentives for marginal
finishes.
Winter must be upon us.
UH

Winter must be upon us.
UH

Look out the window Hank, winter is here in force.

Todd Smith
3S

It's in the sentance structure- He's really comparing the score of a 1
ft short finish to a
missed cylinder speed finish. The spread is less than before.
If you don't get the finish, you don't get the low finish penalty.
John's "social engineering" is intended to take away scoring
incentives for marginal
finishes.
Winter must be upon us.
UH-

Thanks. I feel much better.

But just in case, I'm going to print out this thread and take it with
me to next year's contests to avoid a situation like we had at
Fairfield where everyone agreed the intent of the rules was almost
certainly X but the letter of the rules was Y.

JB

Chip,
Do I detect a rather large tongue in a small cheek, here? I don't see
any way you could be given a finish circle penalty, if you were scored
as a land-out. Why don't you ask Uncle Hank if us poor standard class
guys will be given the 2% reward, if we are forced to fly with those
big bad 15 meter pukes in a small regionals?
JJ

But just in case, I'm going to print out this thread and take it with
me to next year's contests to avoid a situation like we had at
Fairfield where everyone agreed the intent of the rules was almost
certainly X but the letter of the rules was Y.

JB