2007 US Contest Rules Poll and Meeting Minutes

On Dec 19, 9:48 am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Dec 19, 6:18 am, Chip Bearden wrote:



On Dec 18, 6:07 pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:

Chip,
Do I detect a rather large tongue in a small cheek, here? I don't see
any way you could be given a finish circle penalty, if you were scored
as a land-out.

JJ,

Not until I started reading the rules with this whole concept in mind
that I realized technically you can get a finish (by entering the
finish cylinder) but not complete the task (because you land on the
wrong side of the airport fence). To me "good finish" and speed points
were synonomous. So depending on how the rules are written AND (more
important) how WinScore treats it, I can see a situation--a big finish
circle displaced from the contest site and a low final glide from the
wrong direction (i.e., passing over the center of the finish circle to
get to the contest site) where someone might get distance points and
still get nailed with a low finish penalty.

Stranger things have happened. I alluded to the problem at Fairfield
Reg. 4N in October. We used two different start cylinders on different
days because of the TFR over Camp David. One pilot missed the change
and started out of the wrong cylinder, which was farther from the
contest site. So he did not have a valid start. He didn't miss it by
much so we all assumed he'd get a penalty, as below:

10.8.5.4 A pilot may claim a start when no fix is within the Start
Cylinder; such a start
incurs a penalty. [more details]

But he had flown THROUGH the correct start cylinder before it opened
on the way to the wrong cylinder so technically speaking (per the
Rules and WinScore), he wasn't entitled to a start with a penalty;
i.e., he had no start at all.

The start cylinder is defined by:

10.8.5.2 The Start Point, Start Radius, and MSH define a three-
dimensional Start Cylinder. [end of paragraph]

Per this paragraph, the start cylinder exists 24/7, it's just not open
for valid starts until the CD says it is. And the pilot had flown
through it a few minutes before it opened so he had fixes in the
cylinder. Which means he wasn't entitled to claim a start with a
penalty.

After some spirited late evening, post-refreshment discussion, calls
to the Rules Committee were made ("boy, you guys really screwed up big
time now, what the @!$% do you mean he's not entitled to the
penalty?") and the matter was resolved intelligently.

WinScore only flags events that may be a penalty.................it's
up to the CD to look and decide on any penalty.
Enough of this..............someone ask what's the best wax to use!
JJ



Perhaps you can understand why I raised the issue. With only a handful
of pilots in this country able to understand the current scoring
formulas, we're at the mercy of WinScore when it comes to points. And
the computer does exactly what it's told to do. If it's told to
subtract X points if a pilot finishes below Y feet, it must also be
told to verify whether that pilot completed the task or otherwise make
certain the penalty isn't applied to distance points.

I can't wait for spring for someone to try this out at a contest...

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whats the best wax to use? I am assuming it must have silicone in it.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Dec 19, 4:57�pm, Richard wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:48 am, JJ Sinclair wrote:





On Dec 19, 6:18 am, Chip Bearden wrote:

On Dec 18, 6:07 pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:

Chip,
Do I detect a rather large tongue in a small cheek, here? I don't see
any way you could be given a finish circle penalty, if you were scored
as a land-out.

JJ,

Not until I started reading the rules with this whole concept in mind
that I realized technically you can get a finish (by entering the
finish cylinder) but not complete the task (because you land on the
wrong side of the airport fence). To me "good finish" and speed points
were synonomous. So depending on how the rules are written AND (more
important) how WinScore treats it, I can see a situation--a big finish
circle displaced from the contest site and a low final glide from the
wrong direction (i.e., passing over the center of the finish circle to
get to the contest site) where someone might get distance points and
still get nailed with a low finish penalty.

Stranger things have happened. I alluded to the problem at Fairfield
Reg. 4N in October. We used two different start cylinders on different
days because of the TFR over Camp David. One pilot missed the change
and started out of the wrong cylinder, which was farther from the
contest site. So he did not have a valid start. He didn't miss it by
much so we all assumed he'd get a penalty, as below:

10.8.5.4 A pilot may claim a start when no fix is within the Start
Cylinder; such a start
incurs a penalty. [more details]

But he had flown THROUGH the correct start cylinder before it opened
on the way to the wrong cylinder so technically speaking (per the
Rules and WinScore), he wasn't entitled to a start with a penalty;
i.e., he had no start at all.

The start cylinder is defined by:

10.8.5.2 The Start Point, Start Radius, and MSH define a three-
dimensional Start Cylinder. [end of paragraph]

Per this paragraph, the start cylinder exists 24/7, it's just not open
for valid starts until the CD says it is. And the pilot had flown
through it a few minutes before it opened so he had fixes in the
cylinder. Which means he wasn't entitled to claim a start with a
penalty.

After some spirited late evening, post-refreshment discussion, calls
to the Rules Committee were made ("boy, you guys really screwed up big
time now, what the @!$% do you mean he's not entitled to the
penalty?") and the matter was resolved intelligently.

WinScore only flags events that may be a penalty.................it's
up to the CD to look and decide on any penalty.
Enough of this..............someone ask what's the best wax to use!
JJ

Perhaps you can understand why I raised the issue. With only a handful
of pilots in this country able to understand the current scoring
formulas, we're at the mercy of WinScore when it comes to points. And
the computer does exactly what it's told to do. If it's told to
subtract X points if a pilot finishes below Y feet, it must also be
told to verify whether that pilot completed the task or otherwise make
certain the penalty isn't applied to distance points.

I can't wait for spring for someone to try this out at a contest...

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whats the best wax to use? �I am assuming it must have silicone in it.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Snow for a Southern Californian is called ....dang.....ruff..........

Ya, yep, sure is.........best wax......is that soar..ta like being
a ...polished...sitter...........

.................NBA is now going to allow for the ball to go up thur
the hoop and then be pulled back down...........
..................NFL is removing the crossbar......just as long as
ball gets into the stands.... fans will be happier.........
.........hmmmmmmm....gps altitude is not created equal, something
like 1.5 X horizonal error for just a starter.
......To hear woop woop pull up pull up glide low.......need radar
altimeter..........or suck up............
..........so whats a few more bucks and a guy going
do............WTF.........