The Relief Band for Nausea Relief

On 12/27/07 5:49 PM, in article
, "Dan G"
wrote:

On Dec 28, 12:30*am, Bullwinkle wrote:
Examples of meds that can't be used at all, regardless of side effects, or
effects of the underlying disorder:
* * Antidepressants
* * Antipsychotics
* * Muscle relaxers
* * Antiseizure meds (whether or not there is a seizure disorder)
* * Sleeping pills (duh!)
* * Narcotic pain killers
* * etc. etc. There are many like this, also. Sometimes history of use of
these meds requires a waiver ("special issuance", in FAA lingo), sometimes
just a waiting period after the last dose.

Can you or anyone else link to this list please?


Dan

The FAA doesn't publish a list of approved and disapproved meds: they say it
would change too frequently to keep current (probably true).

Good approximations of the current meds list can be found at either:
Www.aviationmedicine.com
Www.leftseat.com

Respectfully,
Bullwinkle

On Dec 27, 6:30 pm, Bullwinkle wrote:
For what it's worth, you should get competent advice from someone who knows
before flying after use of any meds.

But the truth of the matter is, FAR 61.53 makes you your own flight surgeon,
by placing the responsibility for medically grounding and ungrounding,
squarely on you.

Again, I recommend you make this kind of decision only after seeking
competent advice (which, in some cases is not your local AME: many of them
do so few medicals and have such little aviation medicine expertise that
they just don't know, no matter how well meaning they are).

Amen.

I wasn't going to take the time to add anything to this thread, but
can't resist a summary.

Pilots may be:
1: Unimpaired
1B: Unaware of impairment (feels the same as unimpaired)
1C: "Potentially" impaired (by meds, fatigue, etc.)
2: Impaired and aware of it.
2B: Able to compensate or escape to safety
2C: Unable to compensate or escape

Advice-givers should generally refrain from recommending anything that
could be associated with potential impairment (see elsewhere in this
thread for instances of such).

Pilots are responsible for self-assessment, but as this is difficult
(impossible to do objectively), should seek and welcome observations
and counsel of others in the decision not to fly.

Example of "medical" impairment: Simply stay sober while watching
other people consume ("medical") alcohol at a social gathering. If
you're watching carefully, just ONE drink changes the verbal and motor
performance of everyone except a daily-drinker. They s-l-o-w d-o-w-n
mentally, physically, verbally.

Example of physical impairment relevant to this thread: motion
sickness and the sopite syndrome (motion-induced drowsinesss): I get
very sleepy before I get sick; vomiting on my shirt on final (which
I've done) is not as distracting, in my experience, as experiencing
micro-sleep while thermaling (which I've done). I realized this
spring that this is getting worse for me; one April day at 3000 agl, I
forced myself to make 2 decisions: one, to return, land, and stow the
glider; two, to decide whether I should quit soaring.

My decision is relevant to the suggestion by some that motion-sickness
drugs are all right because they help, because the impairment of drug
(undetected by the user) is less than the impairment of the motion
sickness (unavoidable and distracting).

My decision was to *acclimate*, not to take medications - the
'treatment' was to take soaring flights more often, briefly, to
acclimate to motion sickness, and to drink a cup or two of coffee
before lunch (caffeine has been shown to enhance performance slightly)
on soaring days.

As an AME, physician, and opinionater, I feel quite safe in
recommending that one acclimitize. There are ways to do this other
than flying; I know of an aerobatic pilot who stood on his head
several times a day to maintain acclimation during non-flying periods;
or play that involves spinning and jumping should also help. On the
other hand, I do not feel quite safe in recommending that anyone fly
when potentially or actually impaired.

In saying this, I realize that some tasks are simple and hard to mess
up, e.g., local soaring on a sunny calm day. And other tasks are
exceedingly complex, e.g., single-pilot hand-flown IFR in IMC, at
night, in rain or snow, to minimums, in a complex turbocharged
airplane, or contest flying on the ridge with complex navigation and
planning tasks. (We just lost a colleague in NZ like this, obviously
one factor went undetected; what it was, we'll never know.)

Thus "Impairment" is relative to the task at hand.

Best wishes,

Dan Johnson

On 27 Dec, 18:54, danlj wrote:
On Dec 27, 12:33 pm, Ian wrote:

On 26 Dec, 19:36, Wayne Hoover wrote:

Scopolamine not only causes tiredness it can also cause blurred vision
and dilates the the pupils which are also reasons not to use it while
flying.

Indeed - if one is so affected. If one is not so affected, no problem.

As a physician and aviation medical examiner I wish to demur as
clearly as possible from any recommendation to use scopalamine for
motion sickness while flying.

You go right ahead, and welcome.

I never have felt the need to use a patch while flying because,
although I am plagued by sea-sickness, I have never had any
significant problems in the air. If I did start to suffer air-
sickness, however, I would cheerfully consider using Scopaderm TTS
patches. They are available in the UK as an over-the-counter medicine,
and the relevant warning simply says (and I quote) "This medication
causes drowsiness which may continue the next day. If affected do not
drive or operate machinery. Avoid alcoholic drink."

Note that "if affected". As I wrote before, I have spent months of my
life wearing these patches and have noticed no side effects at all,
save a slightly dry mouth which is useful reassurance that the patch
is active.

I'm not a doctor (well, not your sort). I'm not making any
recommendations. I am, however an experienced user of Scopaderm, and I
have a healthy desire to preserve my own life.

Best wishes,

Ian

On Dec 29, 3:35*am, Ian wrote:
snip

I never have felt the need to use a patch while flying because,
although I am plagued by sea-sickness, I have never had any
significant problems in the air. If I did start to suffer air-
sickness, however, I would cheerfully consider using Scopaderm TTS
patches. They are available in the UK as an over-the-counter medicine,
and the relevant warning simply says (and I quote) "This medication
causes drowsiness which may continue the next day. If affected do not
drive or operate machinery. Avoid alcoholic drink."

Note that "if affected". As I wrote before, I have spent months of my
life wearing these patches and have noticed no side effects at all,
save a slightly dry mouth which is useful reassurance that the patch
is active.

snip

Who is going to judge if you are affected? Judging ourselves is the
hardest thing to do.

On 29 Dec, 08:16, Cats wrote:
On Dec 29, 3:35 am, Ian wrote:

Note that "if affected". As I wrote before, I have spent months of my
life wearing these patches and have noticed no side effects at all,
save a slightly dry mouth which is useful reassurance that the patch
is active.

Who is going to judge if you are affected? Judging ourselves is the
hardest thing to do.

That's a very good question. Can I stress that I would only consider
wearing the patches while flying as a last resort. As for effects,
there are two categories. First, drowsiness. I have worn them enough
to be confident that FOR ME there is no problem with drowsiness. It's
only a potential side effect - some people are strongly affected and
some not at all. Second, other impairments. I have not seen anything
in the literature - I read this up quite carefully, as a lay person,
before using the patches whilst sailing single-handed - to back up the
suggestion that Scopolamine generally or even commonly has similar
effects to alcohol. If I did decide to try it then I would certainly
fly with an instructor and ask for a really tricky check flight. Any
problems and of course I wouldn't fly solo.

Ian

Cats wrote:

If affected do not drive or operate machinery.

Who is going to judge if you are affected? Judging ourselves is the
hardest thing to do.

The same person that judges if you are fit to fly based on all factors:
Had enough sleep? Backache? Headache? Leg(s)/Arm(s) ache?
Emotionally fit? The list is endless. If you are in doubt about being
able to judge if you are fit to fly, then don't fly.

Regards,

-Doug

On Dec 29, 11:55*am, Doug Hoffman no.spam wrote:
Cats wrote:
If affected do not drive or operate machinery.
Who is going to judge if you are affected? *Judging ourselves is the
hardest thing to do.

The same person that judges if you are fit to fly based on all factors:
Had enough sleep? *Backache? *Headache? *Leg(s)/Arm(s) ache?
Emotionally fit? *The list is endless. *If you are in doubt about being
able to judge if you are fit to fly, then don't fly.

The problem as I understand it with this drug is that what it impairs
in those affected are the faculties we use to decide if we are
impaired...

Cats wrote:
On Dec 29, 11:55 am, Doug Hoffman no.spam wrote:
Cats wrote:
If affected do not drive or operate machinery.
Who is going to judge if you are affected? Judging ourselves is the
hardest thing to do.

The same person that judges if you are fit to fly based on all factors:
Had enough sleep? Backache? Headache? Leg(s)/Arm(s) ache?
Emotionally fit? The list is endless. If you are in doubt about being
able to judge if you are fit to fly, then don't fly.

The problem as I understand it with this drug is that what it impairs
in those affected are the faculties we use to decide if we are
impaired...

It is up to you and your judgment to decide to do something like what
Ian has suggested:

"If I did decide to try it then I would certainly
fly with an instructor and ask for a really tricky
check flight. Any problems and of course I wouldn't
fly solo."


Now, if this drug is so perverse that when taken it causes one to then
cancel the flight evaluation, then we really do have a problem. ;-)


Regards,

-Doug

On 29 Dec, 18:38, Cats wrote:
On Dec 29, 11:55 am, Doug Hoffman no.spam wrote:

The same person that judges if you are fit to fly based on all factors:
Had enough sleep? Backache? Headache? Leg(s)/Arm(s) ache?
Emotionally fit? The list is endless. If you are in doubt about being
able to judge if you are fit to fly, then don't fly.

The problem as I understand it with this drug is that what it impairs
in those affected are the faculties we use to decide if we are
impaired...

That claim has been made, but I have seen no evidence here or
elsewhere to support it. The four main side effects of Scopolamine -
are dry mouth, drowsiness, dizziness and blurred vision. Of these only
the dry mouth is common.

The claim that a Scopaderm TTS patch has the same effect as a glass of
wine does not seem to be borne out by the literature, though I am
happy, as always, to take correction on that point.

Ian