soaring into the future

The problem with winch launching in the US is the inherent fear of change in
the average person. Most pilots in the US have never experienced a winch
launch, so they only look at the downsides. The potential launch cost
savings aren't significant enough to interest the guys who already own
private ships and have decent incomes. The same guys don't realize how much
fun winching can be, as they've never tried it.

In order to be a safe and successful with winch launching, you need to make
a 100% commitment. You can't run winches and tows in parallel, if people
are going to get and stay proficient in winch launching. In addition, the
only way winches are economically justifiable is if you totally eliminate
the overhead, operating, and maintenance costs associated with a tow plane.

The other problem in the US, is that most glider operations take place at
public airports. The coexistence of winches with power traffic can lead to
real, as well as imaginary issues. With the cost of farmland going thru the
roof, thanks to ethanol and urban sprawl, the feasibility of buying or
leasing land for a winch only strip reasonably close to major metropolitan
areas, where the pilots live, is quite problematic.

To overcome this hurdle, it's going to take a very imaginative marketing
effort, the most important element of which has to be touring the country
giving winch demos to clubs, so people start looking at how much FUN winch
launches are, instead of focusing on the cost savings.

Mike Schumann

P.S. I'm firmly convinced that the most promising market for winch
launching is with commercial operators, who are heavily focused on selling
rides. Not only would their margins increase dramatically, but so would the
ride experience and the marketability of their product.

"Dan G" wrote in message
...
On Dec 27, 8:18 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:

big snip

I wish it was as easy as you think...

What's interesting to me is that you seem to be looking at the same
prices we are. A PW6U is £45,000 over here; a factory built Skylaunch
is ~£60,000. The former has seen a couple of sales and the latter are
being snapped up all over the place. How can we can afford to buy kit
like this and you guys can't? Most of the clubs I know have bought
this equipment cash.

A club which has bought a Skylaunch recently might have about 100
members paying £300 a year each and about £7 a winch launch, plus
around £25 an hour glider hire. An aerotow, btw, costs about £25 to
2,000'. What are US club membership numbers and costs like?


Dan



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Dec 28, 10:39 pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions-
nospam.com wrote:
The problem with winch launching in the US is the inherent fear of change in
the average person. Most pilots in the US have never experienced a winch
launch, so they only look at the downsides. The potential launch cost
savings aren't significant enough to interest the guys who already own
private ships and have decent incomes. The same guys don't realize how much
fun winching can be, as they've never tried it.

In order to be a safe and successful with winch launching, you need to make
a 100% commitment. You can't run winches and tows in parallel, if people
are going to get and stay proficient in winch launching. In addition, the
only way winches are economically justifiable is if you totally eliminate
the overhead, operating, and maintenance costs associated with a tow plane..

The other problem in the US, is that most glider operations take place at
public airports. The coexistence of winches with power traffic can lead to
real, as well as imaginary issues. With the cost of farmland going thru the
roof, thanks to ethanol and urban sprawl, the feasibility of buying or
leasing land for a winch only strip reasonably close to major metropolitan
areas, where the pilots live, is quite problematic.

To overcome this hurdle, it's going to take a very imaginative marketing
effort, the most important element of which has to be touring the country
giving winch demos to clubs, so people start looking at how much FUN winch
launches are, instead of focusing on the cost savings.

Mike Schumann

P.S. I'm firmly convinced that the most promising market for winch
launching is with commercial operators, who are heavily focused on selling
rides. Not only would their margins increase dramatically, but so would the
ride experience and the marketability of their product.

"Dan G" wrote in message

...
On Dec 27, 8:18 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:

big snip

I wish it was as easy as you think...

What's interesting to me is that you seem to be looking at the same
prices we are. A PW6U is £45,000 over here; a factory built Skylaunch
is ~£60,000. The former has seen a couple of sales and the latter are
being snapped up all over the place. How can we can afford to buy kit
like this and you guys can't? Most of the clubs I know have bought
this equipment cash.

A club which has bought a Skylaunch recently might have about 100
members paying £300 a year each and about £7 a winch launch, plus
around £25 an hour glider hire. An aerotow, btw, costs about £25 to
2,000'. What are US club membership numbers and costs like?

Dan

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

One big problem with winch launching in the US is finding somewhere to
get trained. I have been looking for a place to get the training and
have found no place close enough to get the training and 2 locations
which I could travel to and get a concentrated training. Anybody
want to add any operations to that list ?

Todd Smith
3S

toad wrote:
One big problem with winch launching in the US is finding somewhere to
get trained. I have been looking for a place to get the training and
have found no place close enough to get the training and 2 locations
which I could travel to and get a concentrated training. Anybody
want to add any operations to that list ?

Where are you located?

On Dec 28, 11:23 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
toad wrote:
One big problem with winch launching in the US is finding somewhere to
get trained. I have been looking for a place to get the training and
have found no place close enough to get the training and 2 locations
which I could travel to and get a concentrated training. Anybody
want to add any operations to that list ?

Where are you located?

Connecticut

Todd Smith
3S

toad wrote:
On Dec 28, 11:23 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
toad wrote:
One big problem with winch launching in the US is finding somewhere to
get trained. I have been looking for a place to get the training and
have found no place close enough to get the training and 2 locations
which I could travel to and get a concentrated training. Anybody
want to add any operations to that list ?
Where are you located?

Connecticut

Have you tried Mohawk Soaring?

http://mohawksoaring.org/

I'm not sure if they still have one, but they did fairly recently...

Marc

On Dec 29, 8:42 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
toad wrote:
On Dec 28, 11:23 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
toad wrote:
One big problem with winch launching in the US is finding somewhere to
get trained. I have been looking for a place to get the training and
have found no place close enough to get the training and 2 locations
which I could travel to and get a concentrated training. Anybody
want to add any operations to that list ?
Where are you located?

Connecticut

Have you tried Mohawk Soaring?

http://mohawksoaring.org/

I'm not sure if they still have one, but they did fairly recently...

Marc

Mohawk's website mentions it, but I think it's seasonal rather than a
regular activity.

I've just added Finger Lakes SC. I believe they are using dacron, or
were. Need to check with them on the details. There's a picture of
their winch (former PGC winch) in the March 2007 newsletter but
nothing else I could find.

Frank