Europe as joke

Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote:

"Cub Driver" a écrit dans le message de news:
...

How can anyone take Europe seriously as a force in the world?

It's easy. Don't forget why Irak has to be rebuilt.

Thirty years of Europe ignoring the problem, for one.

The amount of damage caused by Us forces pales in comparison to what
their own government had done. Hell, we're spending millions upon
millions rebuilding schools and hospitals that had no war damage
whatsoever.

Read Pax Salam, the Iraqi web logger from Baghdad.

According to him, Iraqis were less afraid of American bombers than
Iraqi AAA coming back down on them!

There was very little damage to Iraq from the war. Remarkably so!

Thirty years of incompetent despotism was another matter.


SMH

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:02:25 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:

For the rebuilding of Iraq, the United States has pledged $20 billion,
Japan has pledged $1.5 billion, and the European Union has pledged
$235 million.

$1.3 bn if you include contributions from individual EU members.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On 24 Oct 2003 22:26:04 GMT, BUFDRVR wrote:

If it were up to me, I'd pull every US military member out of the Balkans to
ease the Iraq burden. Europe doesn't want to help out in Iraq, fine we can
ease our burden at their expense.

That's not a bad idea.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:25:43 GMT, Juvat wrote:

Ignoring the *majority* of the EU nations' opinions was a risk he was
willing to accept. Okay we made the mess, we get to clean it up. The
Iraqi's will be greatful to the US...cool.

I suspect that if you think a democratic Iraq would wholeheartedly
support US policies, you are wrong (particularly regarding the
Israeli/Palestinian dispute). Iraq would probably be slightly less
supportive of US policies than France is. (Not that france is
hostile to the USA; it isn't. It just refuses to be subservient to
the USA)

To suggest that the EU should be greatful for GWB's foreign policy WRT
to Iraq is mis-guided. To suggest they should defray the costs of
cleaning up the mess we made is wishful thinking. GWB "crapped in
their mess kit," the EU owes nothing to GWB (and by extension the
USA's current foreign policy).

GWB spend years ****ing off Europe and the rest of the world. Now
when he vwants support, it's bound to be lukewarm. Which is a pity,
since a rebuilt, democratic Iraq would be a good thing, for Iraq,
for the middle east, and for the rest of the world.

I suspect that you would be equally irate if the EU pledged a greater
amount than the US. The logic being, "Well we kicked Hussein's regime
out, and now those euros are trying to horn in on our re-building
effort and take credit for our efforts."

I'm sure some people would think like that.

How can anyone take Europe seriously as a force in the world?

Well it's pretty easy, the EU has a huge economy...lots of economic
strength. I just finished the last of a six-pack of North Umbrian
Brown Ale...great stuff!

I suspect you mean Northumbrian :-) Or possibly "Newcastle Broon"


--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Phil
blurted out:

I suspect that if you think a democratic Iraq would wholeheartedly
support US policies, you are wrong (particularly regarding the
Israeli/Palestinian dispute).

Allow me to elaborate about a greatful Iraq. I simply meant
political/economic gratitude would more likely to be directed to the
US vice the EU. Not to suggest that the rebuilt Iraq would simply
become a persian puppet. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Iraq would probably be slightly less supportive of US policies
than France is. (Not that france is hostile to the USA;
it isn't. It just refuses to be subservient to the USA)

We are in complete agreement.

GWB spent years ****ing off Europe and the rest of the world. Now
when he wants support, it's bound to be lukewarm. Which is a pity,
since a rebuilt, democratic Iraq would be a good thing, for Iraq,
for the middle east, and for the rest of the world.

Agreed. In discussing this (prior to the invasion) with a coworker
that also happen to be retired USNR Captain he replied, "GWB is doing
what he thinks is in our best interest, not what's in the best
interest for the rest of the world." When questioned about european
reluctance to invade Iraq, "**** 'em!" When asked about all the
goodwill Clinton had built up around the world, "**** 'em."

I suspect you mean Northumbrian :-) Or possibly "Newcastle Broon"

Ack...forgive my error. Northumbrian has displaced Newcastle on my
favorite's list.

Cheers

Juvat

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
BUFDRVR wrote:

It's easy. Don't forget why Irak has to be rebuilt. We didn't invade
Bosnia.

Military forces were "permitted" to enter Bosnia through an agreement,
Kosovo
and Macedonia as well. This doesn't change the fact that Europe
demanded US
involvement even though the situation in the former Republics of
Yugoslavia had
no impact on US national security. As a side note, ground forces were
deployed
under "peaceful" circumstances, but air forces bombed targets in Bosnia,
Kosovo
and Serbia, once again, with US forces making up the majority.

If it were up to me, I'd pull every US military member out of the
Balkans to
ease the Iraq burden. Europe doesn't want to help out in Iraq, fine we
can
ease our burden at their expense.

Totally agree!

It still really frosts me to hear a Euro complain that the US wasn't
willing
to put ground troops in the mix for Kosovo, thereby whimping out.

Yet did provide something like 90% of the air assets for the Kosovo
campaign,
which wouldn't have happened unless the US agreed to be involved.

All for interest that were nil for America.

We really are dumb schmucks!

And sending yet more troops.
One of the units in for training a month or so back is slated to
be sent to over next year.

Since when is a genocide a "uniquely European problem"? It happened in
Europe, but it could have happened anywhere else.

Since when has Europe been worried about genocide? It didn't bother
you when Germany practiced it, or Britain, France, or Belgium. (I'm
not sure about the Dutch record in Africa--not nearly as bad,
evidently.) You worried about Serbia only because it threatened
European interests.

Saddam killed more Muslims than Slobo did. Why wasn't that genocide?

Arafat is waging genocidal war against the Jews (picking up where
Europe left off). Why haven't you intervened in the Middle East
against him?

And do recall what country provided the great weight of men and
weapons to fight in the Balkans. (Hint: it wasn't France, the rare
European country that actually has a military worth respecting.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In the end, the USA is rich enough to pay for its own foreign
policy. EU aid money should go to countries that are in more
urgent need of it.

"Paying for its own foreign policy"? That's a real hoot coming
from Europe!

Stephen, you do have a knack for cutting through the bullfeathers.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In the end, the USA is rich enough to pay for its own foreign
policy. EU aid money should go to countries that are in more
urgent need of it.

Yes, I notice that the EU is giving out more to that fine democracy,
Syria, than to Iraq.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Money to save USA from Troubles in Iraq? No Thanks we have more serious way
to spend our money... For example to build a common European defence to
definitively kill NATO.

For fifty years, the U.S. poured men & money into Europe. If you have
not created a credible military force in half a century, when will you
ever manage it?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com