Is a bird substantial enough to break turbine blades?

On Jan 7, 11:20*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Ricky wrote in news:8e1e5bc2-64ba-4c74-921c-
:







Bertie!

(Or anyone who may want to speculate)

I'm in the last stages of A&P training (already a "P") but I can't
figure out if a big bird would be substantial enough to break
conpressor blades, or interior compressor or turbine blades for that
matter.
I'm guessing the first stage blades would turn the bird into soup. I
also know that first (and second & sometimes later stage) blades are
usually made of much harder material to absorb fod.
I'm also aware that sometimes an abrasive grit is used in turbine &
compressor washes so the blades are understandably very, very tough,
especially with the extreme temps of interior turbine blades.
So, after watching the 757 bird ingestion my college-A&P mind is
trying to figure out exactly what happened, why the turbofan spit fire
and such.
I asked an instructor today & he said the first stage blades likely
will break with a large bird and, of course, cause chaos the rest of
the way through the engine. He also said that small birds can pass
through without even being noticed.
So I'm guessing that exactly what happened is likely up to a wide
range of speculation until you could get into the engine and see but
I'm still curious of ya'll's speculation, too (ya'll's; that's Texan!)

Yes, he's right. Small ones often go right through. If they go through
the core, you can smell them, in fact. You usually get a small
"whumpfh" as they go through.
I know of a large flock of starlings that stopped a JT8 instantly and
broke it;'s mounts.
A large-ish bird will definitely wreck blades. Probably the first
compressor stages will go and the debris from those will take out th
erest of the compresser and the turbine. I've seen an engine you could
see right through with only shards of the blades left on the spools like
an eaten cob of corn. Actually I've seen a few of these, all JT8s.
I'd say that 757's engine was in the same shape after eating that heron.
the fire spitting is due to an uneven flow through the engine. Since th
ecompresser section was screwed, it would be providing air to the burner
cans erratically and instead of a nice smooth fow, you get a series of
pulses. We usually call them compresser stalls.
The grit they clean the engines with is usually something like walnut
shells, AFAIK, but I'm not an engineer! Your insturctor would know
infinitely more about this stuff than I do.

Bertie *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's it, compressor stall, I shoud've remembered. That explains
(probably) the pulsing thrust & fire, not having a smooth, even
airflow to the burner section (cans). I wonder how much, if any,
thrust was being produced.

Yeah, it's often walnut shells used for the compressor & turbine
washes.

We didn't get to work on any large turbine or turbofan engines in
powerplant training. We overhauled some ancient PT-6s and did a hot
section on a small Allison.

Today (start of new semester & start of airframe training) we began
learning how to drill out rivets. Choosing the right bit for rivet
size, learning the air drill, keeping the bit straight & smooth to not
screw up the hole, the tough part for me was popping the head off! I
kinda got it after about 20 rivets but it's gonna take practice.

I also passed my long-overdue medical Monday, paving the way to get
back in the cockpit soon as I can afford it. Dang, I forgot my wallet
got stolen last year including my certificate. Gotta get with FAA to
get a replacement.

Ricky

Ricky wrote in news:4653615f-ba61-4373-b7ee-
:
=



That's it, compressor stall, I shoud've remembered. That explains
(probably) the pulsing thrust & fire, not having a smooth, even
airflow to the burner section (cans). I wonder how much, if any,
thrust was being produced.

Probably quite a lot. Doesn't look like they had a lot of rudder in. and
the airplane isn't yawing back and forth with the pulses, so they
probably weren't that fierce.


Yeah, it's often walnut shells used for the compressor & turbine
washes.

We didn't get to work on any large turbine or turbofan engines in
powerplant training. We overhauled some ancient PT-6s and did a hot
section on a small Allison.

Today (start of new semester & start of airframe training) we began
learning how to drill out rivets. Choosing the right bit for rivet
size, learning the air drill, keeping the bit straight & smooth to not
screw up the hole, the tough part for me was popping the head off! I
kinda got it after about 20 rivets but it's gonna take practice.

Cool. I only make smileys when I try and rivet!

I also passed my long-overdue medical Monday, paving the way to get
back in the cockpit soon as I can afford it. Dang, I forgot my wallet
got stolen last year including my certificate. Gotta get with FAA to
get a replacement.


Yes, you'll need that.

Bertie