Color Me Annoyed

Ya see, if general aviation is in such trouble, and mechanics are
having to go to wrenching on trucks for a living, then why can't you
find a mechanic who will work on your airplane within a reasonable
time frame? (mutter, mumble)


Yep. The full time mechanic that has been working on my plane has
essentially quit the business, only performing annuals on the minimum
number of planes to keep his IA. (Fortunately mine is one of them.)
His main problem is getting paid. Owners either refuse to pay or make
him wait for the $$$. I don't understand this because they are just
shooting themselves (and others) in the foot.

Regards,
Jerry

wrote:


His main problem is getting paid. Owners either refuse to pay or make
him wait for the $$$. I don't understand this because they are just
shooting themselves (and others) in the foot.


Funny, I've always had the opposite problem. I've had the same mechanic
for 18 yrs. and every time I show up to pick up my plane (checkbook in hand)
there is no bill ready, so I can't pay. They've always been able to get the
work done in a reasonable time, but the billing could take a week or two.
He's getting a lot better since he hired some staff to keep the paperwork
moving.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200801/1

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:26:01 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote:

Funny, I've always had the opposite problem. I've had the same mechanic
for 18 yrs. and every time I show up to pick up my plane (checkbook in hand)
there is no bill ready, so I can't pay.

Our guy is like that too, as is my favorite avionics shop.

I just keep the check at hand and send it off as soon as the bill
arrives.

Here are your choices: Go to school and get your A&P license, then put in the required 3 years and acquire the IA rating, or build a homebuilt and get a repairman certificate.

Being an A&P in General Aviation simply isn't worth it anymore. Auto shops pay far better wages without the liability and a government agency such as the FAA scrutinizing your every move. Then add in aircraft owners that threaten lawsuits over anything they are unhappy with, or the "I'm gonna call the FAA!" threats when you try to tell them why their annual is going to cost a lot more than they have budgeted.

Most aircraft owners view this as their hobby and expect the mechanic to treat it as his hobby also. These same owners will balk and raise hell about paying $60 an hour for an A&P, but gladly pay the Chevy dealer $90 an hour to work on his SUV.

I can't count the times when pilots on the airport discovered I had an A&P/IA would come to me wanting "sign off my annual" if they "do all the work". What this really meant was "I'll open up the panels and cowlings, then you take my logbooks and sign them". I even had one guy walk in my hangar with his logbooks and told me "I've done everything, I just need these signed".

Needless to say, I don't work on anyone's airplane except my own.


So bitch and complain all you want. This doesn't affect me since I can do all my own work. And as time goes by, it's only going to get worse.

Just general comments to the posts...

Yup, Ol Crusty never could seem to get a bill together... He wrenched
on my airplanes for 17 continuous years as best I can remember...
When I did get the bill some 5 or 6 weeks later I always sent a check
by return mail as I knew he was usually in a cash flow crunch... A
couple of times I even drove the check 20 miles to him after my office
hours on the day I received it because I knew he needed to pay his
mechanic... And I did consider him a friend (he still left me twisting
in the wind - for whatever it's worth)...

Being in one business or another for 50+ years I can cite you chapter
and verse on slow pay/no pay people... All business owners have these
problems...
When I had the auto body shop it only took me one bad customer to set
the rule that the car is not pulled out from behind the chained fence
until the bill is paid in full...
Airplane mechanics who are not getting paid just do not understand how
to run a business... The plane does not leave the shop until the bill
is paid - period...
If the customer needs credit let him get it from the bank, his
buddies, where ever... or go to Helen Waite
Anytime I have a bill at any of the big guys, Jet Center, Millionaire,
etc. my plane stays behind their hangar doors until the eye candy at
the front desk calls the shop foreman and informs him the bill is paid
and he can bring the plane out to the ramp... They understand what it
takes to stay in business...

I agree with plane owners being cheap *******s... In fact I told Ol
Crusty numerous times that he needed to raise his shop rates, paint
the floor, get new tool carts, everyone wears a clean uniform, present
the customer with an itemized estimated bill and have it signed in the
three places before turning the first wrench, and act like he is a
skilled professional... Doing that and having a business manager
would have kept him in business.. The auto dealers understand that -
and for those who don't it will only be a short time before Roger
Penske's name will be out front in place of theirs......

denny

Originally Posted by Denny

I agree with plane owners being cheap *******s... In fact I told Ol
Crusty numerous times that he needed to raise his shop rates, paint
the floor, get new tool carts, everyone wears a clean uniform, present
the customer with an itemized estimated bill and have it signed in the
three places before turning the first wrench, and act like he is a
skilled professional... Doing that and having a business manager
would have kept him in business.. The auto dealers understand that -
and for those who don't it will only be a short time before Roger
Penske's name will be out front in place of theirs......

denny

And if the mechanic did this and raised his rates the aircraft owners would refuse to go there. Remember, most aircraft owners expect the mechanic to do this as his hobby too. Also when the typical pilot has an annual done they somehow expect the plane to be "warranteed" for the rest of the year, i.e. if a mag fails 6 months and 150 hours later, they are back to the IA complaining he "didn't do his annual correctly" and want him to pay to repair the problem. If he doesn't, then said aircraft owner tells everyone what a "crook" this "incompetent" A&P is and drags him through the mud, or better yet runs to the FAA and tries to complain.

Aircraft owners are digging the hole deeper and deeper. The end result will be no one willing to work on your aircraft, or taking it to the Mega dollar FBO and getting a $12000 annual on your 172.

Like I said, glad I got my A&P/IA.

Most aircraft owners view this as their hobby and expect the mechanic
to treat it as his hobby also. These same owners will balk and raise
hell about paying $60 an hour for an A&P, but gladly pay the Chevy
dealer $90 an hour to work on his SUV.


The pilots I know are willing to pay fair value for services rendered.
I'm guessing you didn't spend multi-million on a facility, $250 grand in
shop equipment and diagnostic analyzers. If you did you are likely to have a
1st class facility that would draw plenty of aircraft repair business that
would pay you $90 an hour. Heck you could publish a reasonable fixed rate
for inspections and I'm sure you can get plenty of business that way also.
But you sound like you have an unreasonable expectation of what a mechanics
should earn. Keep you A&P/IA to yourself, the world doesn't need another
service provider with a chip on their shoulder.

Originally Posted by Steve

The pilots I know are willing to pay fair value for services rendered.
I'm guessing you didn't spend multi-million on a facility, $250 grand in
shop equipment and diagnostic analyzers. If you did you are likely to have a
1st class facility that would draw plenty of aircraft repair business that
would pay you $90 an hour. Heck you could publish a reasonable fixed rate
for inspections and I'm sure you can get plenty of business that way also.
But you sound like you have an unreasonable expectation of what a mechanics
should earn. Keep you A&P/IA to yourself, the world doesn't need another
service provider with a chip on their shoulder.

I don't have a shop nor do I work as a mechanic. I've been involved in GA for over 35 years and took the time to acquire my A&P and IA so I could maintain my own airplane or helicopter.

A large portion of GA pilots can't really afford it as a hobby and are unrealistic when it comes to the true cost of aircraft ownership. These coupled with the tight wads that want everything done for them as "a buddy deal" are the biggest complainers when it comes to aircraft maintenance.

At one point in my life I was the guy that would help out a fellow pilot with a maintenance problem, but no more. I've been screwed over more than once with one time leading to an FAA investigation over a false accusation (I was cleared, but it was unpleasant to say the least).

So yes, I'll keep my A&P/IA to myself. And for the rest of you, just keep bitching about the lack of good A&P's to support your hobby.

Well, it is 1 Feb and Fat Albert is out of license this morning, and I
am Mr. grumpy... First time in over 40 years of owning I have had my
airplane just sitting there in flyable condition, out of license...

Multiple comments read and noted... There are no easy answers to the
dilemma of GA... The increasing costs of everything are driving folks
out of flying... The increasing regs and draconian penalties for
crossing an invisible line on the ground are driving folks out of
flying... The decreasing hours flown are hurting FBO and mechanics...
It is a vicious circle...

For a tiny few, getting your own A&PI is the answer, but out of reach
of the other 99.xx% of us...
Building an experimental is one solution... I am persuing that, but
working 12 hours a day seems to get in the way of my motivation...
LSA is a partial answer - and might be in my future as I continue to
age (hopefully, I will continue to)

The loss of Ol Grumpy will increase business for the folks remaining
which should help keep them in business - the law of unintended
consequences in action...

denny and Fat Albert the Apache

rotor&wing wrote:
Steve;598168 Wrote:

The pilots I know are willing to pay fair value for services rendered.
I'm guessing you didn't spend multi-million on a facility, $250 grand
in
shop equipment and diagnostic analyzers. If you did you are likely to
have a
1st class facility that would draw plenty of aircraft repair business
that
would pay you $90 an hour. Heck you could publish a reasonable fixed
rate
for inspections and I'm sure you can get plenty of business that way
also.
But you sound like you have an unreasonable expectation of what a
mechanics
should earn. Keep you A&P/IA to yourself, the world doesn't need
another
service provider with a chip on their shoulder.

I don't have a shop nor do I work as a mechanic. I've been involved in
GA for over 35 years and took the time to acquire my A&P and IA so I
could maintain my own airplane or helicopter.

A large portion of GA pilots can't really afford it as a hobby and are
unrealistic when it comes to the true cost of aircraft ownership. These
coupled with the tight wads that want everything done for them as "a
buddy deal" are the biggest complainers when it comes to aircraft
maintenance.

At one point in my life I was the guy that would help out a fellow
pilot with a maintenance problem, but no more. I've been screwed over
more than once with one time leading to an FAA investigation over a
false accusation (I was cleared, but it was unpleasant to say the
least).

So yes, I'll keep my A&P/IA to myself. And for the rest of you, just
keep bitching about the lack of good A&P's to support your hobby.

And if you do have a good and generous A&P,
remind him that he should charge as much as
the guy that fixes your Subaru, and If he
still doesn't, give him a big tip and offer
to fill his plane or car with gas...