Color Me Annoyed

Originally Posted by Steve

The pilots I know are willing to pay fair value for services rendered.
I'm guessing you didn't spend multi-million on a facility, $250 grand in
shop equipment and diagnostic analyzers. If you did you are likely to have a
1st class facility that would draw plenty of aircraft repair business that
would pay you $90 an hour. Heck you could publish a reasonable fixed rate
for inspections and I'm sure you can get plenty of business that way also.
But you sound like you have an unreasonable expectation of what a mechanics
should earn. Keep you A&P/IA to yourself, the world doesn't need another
service provider with a chip on their shoulder.

I don't have a shop nor do I work as a mechanic. I've been involved in GA for over 35 years and took the time to acquire my A&P and IA so I could maintain my own airplane or helicopter.

A large portion of GA pilots can't really afford it as a hobby and are unrealistic when it comes to the true cost of aircraft ownership. These coupled with the tight wads that want everything done for them as "a buddy deal" are the biggest complainers when it comes to aircraft maintenance.

At one point in my life I was the guy that would help out a fellow pilot with a maintenance problem, but no more. I've been screwed over more than once with one time leading to an FAA investigation over a false accusation (I was cleared, but it was unpleasant to say the least).

So yes, I'll keep my A&P/IA to myself. And for the rest of you, just keep bitching about the lack of good A&P's to support your hobby.

Well, it is 1 Feb and Fat Albert is out of license this morning, and I
am Mr. grumpy... First time in over 40 years of owning I have had my
airplane just sitting there in flyable condition, out of license...

Multiple comments read and noted... There are no easy answers to the
dilemma of GA... The increasing costs of everything are driving folks
out of flying... The increasing regs and draconian penalties for
crossing an invisible line on the ground are driving folks out of
flying... The decreasing hours flown are hurting FBO and mechanics...
It is a vicious circle...

For a tiny few, getting your own A&PI is the answer, but out of reach
of the other 99.xx% of us...
Building an experimental is one solution... I am persuing that, but
working 12 hours a day seems to get in the way of my motivation...
LSA is a partial answer - and might be in my future as I continue to
age (hopefully, I will continue to)

The loss of Ol Grumpy will increase business for the folks remaining
which should help keep them in business - the law of unintended
consequences in action...

denny and Fat Albert the Apache

Originally Posted by Denny

Well, it is 1 Feb and Fat Albert is out of license this morning, and I
am Mr. grumpy... First time in over 40 years of owning I have had my
airplane just sitting there in flyable condition, out of license...

Multiple comments read and noted... There are no easy answers to the
dilemma of GA... The increasing costs of everything are driving folks
out of flying... The increasing regs and draconian penalties for
crossing an invisible line on the ground are driving folks out of
flying... The decreasing hours flown are hurting FBO and mechanics...
It is a vicious circle...

For a tiny few, getting your own A&PI is the answer, but out of reach
of the other 99.xx% of us...
Building an experimental is one solution... I am persuing that, but
working 12 hours a day seems to get in the way of my motivation...
LSA is a partial answer - and might be in my future as I continue to
age (hopefully, I will continue to)

The loss of Ol Grumpy will increase business for the folks remaining
which should help keep them in business - the law of unintended
consequences in action...

denny and Fat Albert the Apache

It's really too bad the FAA doesn't have a "repairman" rating for private aircraft owners and their aircraft.

My first twin was a 1957 Apache with the 150hp engines. I redid the instrument panel and put the center stack avionics. It was just a reliable great plane.

A few hangars down from me is a full blown Geronimo Apache (full conversion including nacelles and 180hp) There were only about 12 ever done that have all the STC's applied and this is one of them.

In article Denny writes:

Well, it is 1 Feb and Fat Albert is out of license this morning, and I
am Mr. grumpy... First time in over 40 years of owning I have had my
airplane just sitting there in flyable condition, out of license...

Waiting months while the mechanic promised he would get to the static
system check "next week" was probably the thing that really turned the
corner for the demise of my plane. :-(

I heard later that he had had serious health problems (explaining why
he was so frequently not there). Hooking the plane to the car and towing
it to another airport was not really an option, so it waited. And waited...


Multiple comments read and noted... There are no easy answers to the
dilemma of GA... The increasing costs of everything are driving folks
out of flying...

Indeed. As another pointed out, the costs of owning have gone way up.
The cost of fuel has become painful for even a couple of casual pointless
hours in a 172.


The increasing regs and draconian penalties for
crossing an invisible line on the ground are driving folks out of
flying...

Indeed. We used to have freedom to fly, now we are treated as if
everyone in an airplane is a terrorist (other than airlines and a few
special blessed activities).


The decreasing hours flown are hurting FBO and mechanics...
It is a vicious circle...

As noted elsewere in this thread, many of us have to be price sensitive
about maintenance -- it is that or not own a plane. But the mechanic has
to eat and pay his rent, too.


Building an experimental is one solution... I am persuing that, but
working 12 hours a day seems to get in the way of my motivation...

If you have the space and time. I once read the note that if your goal
was to build an airplane, then build. If your goal was to fly, then building
was probably the wrong way to get there.

Considering the cost of space for the construction for the number of years
needed, and the time required, building can get pretty expensive. We don't
all have large workspaces and appropriate tools already available.


LSA is a partial answer - and might be in my future as I continue to
age (hopefully, I will continue to)

Prebuilt S-LSA might be an answer, though one has to do a 120 hour
class to be able to inspect/maintain one of them (and you will still
need the tools and space to do it). Even so, the price of the S-LSA
is pretty substantial as well.

As one who enjoys night flight, and likes to do cross-country a
little above 10,000 feet, LSA doesn't look like it really cuts it.


So with government restrictions (which will probably never go away),
and costs continuing up, I wonder if I will become another who has
left aviation, not to return.


Alan

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 07:45:58 +0000 (UTC),
(Alan) wrote:

Waiting months while the mechanic promised he would get to the static
system check "next week" was probably the thing that really turned the
corner for the demise of my plane. :-(

I heard later that he had had serious health problems (explaining why
he was so frequently not there). Hooking the plane to the car and towing
it to another airport was not really an option, so it waited. And waited...

I've not followed this thread that closely, but if the only problem
was out of date paperwork, why not get a ferry permit and move it that
way? I understand trying to be loyal to someone who's done work for
you before and is making promises, but at what point do you say
"enough" when they haven't completed a 4 hour job, including the
paperwork (if you're talking about a 91.411/413 cert)? Mechanics
complain about owners, but it does work both ways when you have
situations like that.

Color me really annoyed... It took me a day to cool down enough to be
lucid...
The new Lycoming cylinder kits have turned out to contain the wrong
cylinders...%^$#*&!
When I ordered them I called Lycoming and gave the engine serial
number to the voice on the phone who cross checked it and he told me
what the correct cylinders/parts numbers were... Then when I called
AERO they agreed with Lycoming... Never the less, The Kid took one
look at the first new cylinder and said, "nope, won't work." and
simply walked away and went back to rebuilding a customers magneto...
crusty, just like his dad, and I hate it when he is right like that

I spent a large chunk of Wednesday afternoon on the phone with the
factory/supplier to solve this... and I even found that one of the
cylinder kits even has the wrong 'paperwork' inserted in the box i.e.
the 8130 certifies this to be different cylinder than it actually is
The nice lady on the phone took all of 3 seconds after I gave her
the engine serial number to agree that the kit I have will not work
why wasn't she the one who answered the phone the first time?
sheeesh


Long story short: The supplier is going to ship me 4 new cylinder kits
as soon as Chicago UPS can run their trucks through the snow - so it
will be at least another week before we have cylinders... And they
are going to charge my card for the cylinder kits and shipping
sigh... And then they are supposed to - next week - come up with a
way to get the original 4 cylinder kits returned and then supposedly
credit my card sigh...

The other issue is that we now can't get Lycoming cylinders for this
engine, so we had a choice between Superior and ECI... The Kid was
campaigning for ECI Nickel cylinders, but they only have 3 on hand..
In the end, we settled for 4 ECI Steel cylinder kits... Which raised
another complication, the lycoming kits have a wrist pin but no rocker
arm pins, so we had sent the rocker pins out for rebuild along with
the rocker arms... The ECI kits come with rocker arm pins and no
wrist pins so I had to order new wrist pins and I will be left with a
set of freshly rebuilt rocker arm pins I have no need for... (oh hell,
it's only pieces of paper with green ink on them)

For those who are still awake at this point and are wondering - I
recycle rocker arm pins because they never break that I know of but
I always install new wrist pins - because they do break...

denny

On Feb 8, 5:55 am, Denny wrote:

I spent a large chunk of Wednesday afternoon on the phone with the
factory/supplier to solve this... and I even found that one of the
cylinder kits even has the wrong 'paperwork' inserted in the box i.e.
the 8130 certifies this to be different cylinder than it actually is.

Just be glad you don't have one of those Lycoming cranks that the
last AD demands be scrapped immediately. You *don't* have one,
right??

Dan

"Denny" wrote in message
...
Color me really annoyed... It took me a day to cool down enough to be
lucid...
The new Lycoming cylinder kits have turned out to contain the wrong
cylinders...%^$#*&!
When I ordered them I called Lycoming and gave the engine serial
number to the voice on the phone who cross checked it and he told me
what the correct cylinders/parts numbers were... Then when I called
AERO they agreed with Lycoming... Never the less, The Kid took one
look at the first new cylinder and said, "nope, won't work." and
simply walked away and went back to rebuilding a customers magneto...
crusty, just like his dad, and I hate it when he is right like that

I spent a large chunk of Wednesday afternoon on the phone with the
factory/supplier to solve this... and I even found that one of the
cylinder kits even has the wrong 'paperwork' inserted in the box i.e.
the 8130 certifies this to be different cylinder than it actually is
The nice lady on the phone took all of 3 seconds after I gave her
the engine serial number to agree that the kit I have will not work
why wasn't she the one who answered the phone the first time?
sheeesh


Long story short: The supplier is going to ship me 4 new cylinder kits
as soon as Chicago UPS can run their trucks through the snow - so it
will be at least another week before we have cylinders... And they
are going to charge my card for the cylinder kits and shipping
sigh... And then they are supposed to - next week - come up with a
way to get the original 4 cylinder kits returned and then supposedly
credit my card sigh...

The other issue is that we now can't get Lycoming cylinders for this
engine, so we had a choice between Superior and ECI... The Kid was
campaigning for ECI Nickel cylinders, but they only have 3 on hand..
In the end, we settled for 4 ECI Steel cylinder kits... Which raised
another complication, the lycoming kits have a wrist pin but no rocker
arm pins, so we had sent the rocker pins out for rebuild along with
the rocker arms... The ECI kits come with rocker arm pins and no
wrist pins so I had to order new wrist pins and I will be left with a
set of freshly rebuilt rocker arm pins I have no need for... (oh hell,
it's only pieces of paper with green ink on them)

For those who are still awake at this point and are wondering - I
recycle rocker arm pins because they never break that I know of but
I always install new wrist pins - because they do break...

denny

You might check with RAM Aircraft, 254-752-8381 ask for parts sales, they
carry a lot of new ECI cylinders for Lycoming. I would stick with the
nickel if I had the choice.

Allen

The new Lycoming cylinder kits have turned out to contain the wrong
cylinders...%^$#*&!

JEEBUS. What a cluster f*%k.

Owning an aircraft can be SO much fun. It's amazing the number of different
ways ownership can give one an ulcer...

God help me, I love it so...

;-)

Sorry for your headache, Denny. Keep up the faith -- in 18 or 36 months,
this will all be a bad memory, told over stiff drinks....
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Thanks, Jay... Well, it could be worse... I could own a boat!

The 'new' cylinders came in yesterday... I assume they are correct
this time... I didn't even open the boxes... I hauled them out to
the airport last night after office hours and stuffed them in the
hangar - in the dark and the cold and the wind (-1 degree, but I'll
bet you know all about that there in eyeoway - my daughter attended
med school in Des Moines so I've had some first hand experience with
your part of the country)
Interestingly, I know they hit my card for another $4K+... But nowhere
did I see the envelope with the RMA stickers to return the other $4K+
of cylinders for credit, like they promised...
I have been in business for a half century, so this isn't my first
rodeo... I'll just keep puttin the spurs to em... The thing they
might not understand is that credit card payments can be reversed in a
heart beat... I'll mention tha tto them on the next phone call...

denny