Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:43:58 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Peter Skelton wrote:
:
::On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 08:53:26 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::
::Peter Skelton wrote:
::
:::On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:06:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:::
:::"dott.Piergiorgio" wrote:
:::
::::Fred J. McCall ha scritto:
::::
:::: Why? What does it get you? The missile is already 20x faster than
:::: what you're shooting it at.
::::
:::: Capability isn't free. If you want a supersonic anti-ship missile, it
:::: has to be bigger (which means you can carry fewer of them), fly higher
:::: (to escape reflections of its own shockwave from the surface), etc.
::::
::::
::::As I understand, very high speed in ASuW missiles is conceived as
::::counter-measure against CIWS systems, on the basis of reducing the
::::available reaction time.
::::
:::
:::I know it's viewed that way, but does it really buy you anything? You
:::pick it up farther away (because it has to fly higher and is larger)
:::and you have many fewer missiles to use to try to overload a defensive
:::sector (again, because the missiles must be much larger).
:::
:::And, of course, a larger, hotter missile is also easier to hit once
:::you detect it...
:::
:::Aren't the small, modified AA missles supersonic, small and about
:::as long-ranged as harpoon? They've a much smaller punch -
:::nothing's free, as you say, but they'd be likely to hit against
:::current defenses.
:::
::
::I'm not sure what missiles you're talking about.
::
::The standard family for certain, I'm not sure how much other kit
::has been upgraded.
::
:
:I don't believe they are nearly as long-ranged as Harpoon when they
:are used in the anti-ship mode. One of the things you give up for
:supersonic speed is range (you burn the fuel grain much faster) unless
:you make them very, very large.
:
:They are longer ranged in anti-ship mode than in anti-air - it
:has to be that way, the height it has in AA mode at maximum range
:is available as energy to get out farther at the surface. SM2 ER
:should be good to 90 sea miles.
:

No, it doesn't have to be that way at all. Air resistance matters.
What altitude the rocket nozzle is optimized for matters. Flight
profile matters.

:
:That doesn't mean targeting and sensors work that way, the world
:being curved and all.
:
I'm not sure that these are usefully smaller than harpoon - the
:diameter of both is 13.5")
:

They're not. In fact they're pretty much the same size and weight.
The Standard Missile motor burns much hotter. Flight profile is very
different. Standard will launch from a Mk-41 VLS while Harpoon will
not.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:36:50 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:43:58 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Peter Skelton wrote:
:
::On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 08:53:26 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::
::Peter Skelton wrote:
::
:::On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:06:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:::
:::"dott.Piergiorgio" wrote:
:::
::::Fred J. McCall ha scritto:
::::
:::: Why? What does it get you? The missile is already 20x faster than
:::: what you're shooting it at.
::::
:::: Capability isn't free. If you want a supersonic anti-ship missile, it
:::: has to be bigger (which means you can carry fewer of them), fly higher
:::: (to escape reflections of its own shockwave from the surface), etc.
::::
::::
::::As I understand, very high speed in ASuW missiles is conceived as
::::counter-measure against CIWS systems, on the basis of reducing the
::::available reaction time.
::::
:::
:::I know it's viewed that way, but does it really buy you anything? You
:::pick it up farther away (because it has to fly higher and is larger)
:::and you have many fewer missiles to use to try to overload a defensive
:::sector (again, because the missiles must be much larger).
:::
:::And, of course, a larger, hotter missile is also easier to hit once
:::you detect it...
:::
:::Aren't the small, modified AA missles supersonic, small and about
:::as long-ranged as harpoon? They've a much smaller punch -
:::nothing's free, as you say, but they'd be likely to hit against
:::current defenses.
:::
::
::I'm not sure what missiles you're talking about.
::
::The standard family for certain, I'm not sure how much other kit
::has been upgraded.
::
:
:I don't believe they are nearly as long-ranged as Harpoon when they
:are used in the anti-ship mode. One of the things you give up for
:supersonic speed is range (you burn the fuel grain much faster) unless
:you make them very, very large.
:
:They are longer ranged in anti-ship mode than in anti-air - it
:has to be that way, the height it has in AA mode at maximum range
:is available as energy to get out farther at the surface. SM2 ER
:should be good to 90 sea miles.
:

No, it doesn't have to be that way at all. Air resistance matters.
What altitude the rocket nozzle is optimized for matters. Flight
profile matters.

Straight down is always achievable


Peter Skelton

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:36:50 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Peter Skelton wrote:
:
::On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:43:58 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::
::Peter Skelton wrote:
::
:::On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 08:53:26 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:::
:::Peter Skelton wrote:
:::
::::On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:06:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::::
::::"dott.Piergiorgio" wrote:
::::
:::::Fred J. McCall ha scritto:
:::::
::::: Why? What does it get you? The missile is already 20x faster than
::::: what you're shooting it at.
:::::
::::: Capability isn't free. If you want a supersonic anti-ship missile, it
::::: has to be bigger (which means you can carry fewer of them), fly higher
::::: (to escape reflections of its own shockwave from the surface), etc.
:::::
:::::
:::::As I understand, very high speed in ASuW missiles is conceived as
:::::counter-measure against CIWS systems, on the basis of reducing the
:::::available reaction time.
:::::
::::
::::I know it's viewed that way, but does it really buy you anything? You
::::pick it up farther away (because it has to fly higher and is larger)
::::and you have many fewer missiles to use to try to overload a defensive
::::sector (again, because the missiles must be much larger).
::::
::::And, of course, a larger, hotter missile is also easier to hit once
::::you detect it...
::::
::::Aren't the small, modified AA missles supersonic, small and about
::::as long-ranged as harpoon? They've a much smaller punch -
::::nothing's free, as you say, but they'd be likely to hit against
::::current defenses.
::::
:::
:::I'm not sure what missiles you're talking about.
:::
:::The standard family for certain, I'm not sure how much other kit
:::has been upgraded.
:::
::
::I don't believe they are nearly as long-ranged as Harpoon when they
::are used in the anti-ship mode. One of the things you give up for
::supersonic speed is range (you burn the fuel grain much faster) unless
::you make them very, very large.
::
::They are longer ranged in anti-ship mode than in anti-air - it
::has to be that way, the height it has in AA mode at maximum range
::is available as energy to get out farther at the surface. SM2 ER
::should be good to 90 sea miles.
::
:
:No, it doesn't have to be that way at all. Air resistance matters.
:What altitude the rocket nozzle is optimized for matters. Flight
:profile matters.
:
:
:Straight down is always achievable
:

But hitting something that way isn't.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn