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#1
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In message , Clark
writes Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with Aegis. GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 and SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose designation I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. Vertically Launched Sea Sparrow. There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. -- The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com |
#2
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Clark wrote:
:On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: : : In message , Clark : writes :Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with Aegis. : : GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 and : SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose designation : I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. Vertically Launched Sea : Sparrow. : : There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like : vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. : : :In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We were :typing about Standard missiles. : No, we weren't. You insisted that "AEGIS" was identically "VLS". You're wrong. It's not. That's not even true for Standard-capable launchers (Mk 41 VLS), since the new LPDs will have Mk 41 launchers and no AEGIS system. Some of the Spruance class (all those currently left in commission) have Mk 41 VLS and no AEGIS system. Now, would you like to wriggle some more, or shall you just admit you didn't know what you were talking about and move on? -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#3
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Clark wrote:
:Fred J. McCall wrote in : : : Clark wrote: : ::On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: :: :: In message , Clark :: writes ::Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with Aegis. :: :: GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 :and :: SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose designation :: I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. Vertically Launched Sea :: Sparrow. :: :: There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like :: vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. :: :: ::In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We were ::typing about Standard missiles. :: : : No, we weren't. You insisted that "AEGIS" was identically "VLS". : :Read it again dimwit. I noted that Aegis and vls went together and they do. : Read it again, dumbass. You insisted that "AEGIS" and "VLS" meant the same thing. They don't. They also don't always go together. There have been AEGIS ships without VLS and VLS ships without AEGIS. : : : You're wrong. It's not. : :Show me an Aegis that doesn't have VLS. : : That's not even true for Standard-capable launchers (Mk 41 VLS), since : the new LPDs will have Mk 41 launchers and no AEGIS system. Some of : the Spruance class (all those currently left in commission) have Mk 41 : VLS and no AEGIS system. : :There are no Sprucans left in commission. Last one was decommissioned in :05. : So what? You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS. You then revised to there being no VLS firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). You're still wrong. There have been AEGIS ships without VLS and there have been VLS ships, firing both Standard and other missiles, without AEGIS. : : Now, would you like to wriggle some more, or shall you just admit you : didn't know what you were talking about and move on? : :Get real. You are the arrogant clueless one here. You really need a reality :check...and some parental guidance. : Both my parents are dead, you stupid ****e. My mother just died a few weeks ago. And you're not only ignorant and stupid, you're apparently also ill-mannered and insensitive. Sort of a Renaissance ****head. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#4
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Clark wrote:
:Fred J. McCall wrote in : : : Clark wrote: : ::Fred J. McCall wrote in : :: :: Clark wrote: :: :::On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: ::: ::: In message , Clark ::: writes :::Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with :::Aegis. ::: ::: GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 and ::: SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose ::: designation I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. ::: Vertically Launched Sea Sparrow. ::: ::: There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like ::: vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. ::: ::: :::In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We :::were typing about Standard missiles. ::: :: :: No, we weren't. You insisted that "AEGIS" was identically "VLS". :: ::Read it again dimwit. I noted that Aegis and vls went together and they ::do. :: : : Read it again, dumbass. You insisted that "AEGIS" and "VLS" meant the : same thing. They don't. They also don't always go together. There : have been AEGIS ships without VLS and VLS ships without AEGIS. : :: :: :: You're wrong. It's not. :: ::Show me an Aegis that doesn't have VLS. :: :: That's not even true for Standard-capable launchers (Mk 41 VLS), since :: the new LPDs will have Mk 41 launchers and no AEGIS system. Some of :: the Spruance class (all those currently left in commission) have Mk 41 :: VLS and no AEGIS system. :: ::There are no Sprucans left in commission. Last one was decommissioned in ::05. :: : : So what? You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS. You then : revised to there being no VLS firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice : versa). : :And you tried to use Sprucans as an example of VLS w/o Aegis. So sorry that :they don't exist. : Except they do exist. You're just now trying to further revise your original remark to achieve some form of correctness. So far: 1) You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS and vice versa, saying that saying AEGIS when you meant VLS was the same statement. 2) You then revised to there being no VLS capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). 3) You then revised to there being no *US* VLS capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). 4) You're now at there being no *US* VLS on ships currently in commission capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). And you're still wrong. : : : You're still wrong. There have been AEGIS ships without VLS and there : have been VLS ships, firing both Standard and other missiles, without : AEGIS. : :That wasn't what I stated. Go back and read it again. Get someone to help :you understand. : That was precisely what you stated and your ill-mannered behaviour at this point doesn't erase it. Let us once again enumerate the evolution of your claim: 1) You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS and vice versa, saying that saying AEGIS when you meant VLS was the same statement. 2) You then revised to there being no VLS capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). 3) You then revised to there being no *US* VLS capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). 4) You're now at there being no *US* VLS on ships currently in commission capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). And you're still wrong. : : :: :: Now, would you like to wriggle some more, or shall you just admit you :: didn't know what you were talking about and move on? :: ::Get real. You are the arrogant clueless one here. You really need a ::reality check...and some parental guidance. :: : : Both my parents are dead, you stupid ****e. My mother just died a few : weeks ago. : : And you're not only ignorant and stupid, you're apparently also : ill-mannered and insensitive. : :And I'm insensitive because of....what? Now, if you had previously ![]() ![]() : Uh, I don't know how to break it to you, dumbass, but that's precisely what happened. Ask around. As we've seen from your other expositions in ignorance, YOU not knowing is not the same as "not known to all". : :Your bull**** on the other hand is highly :suspect because you've already made other *documented* false statements ![]() : And just what did I say that was false? Have you now moved to "the Spruance class never existed" in your litany of idiocy? : :In other words, your mother didn't just pass and you are :trying for the sympathy play. Good luck with that. : Why would anyone want 'sympathy' from a gormless twit like you? And do you seriously think anyone would bother to tell such a lie just to 'win' a point? Unlikely. After all, most people aren't like you. : : : Sort of a Renaissance ****head. : :Well, the ****head part describes you perfectly. Try real hard to deal with :the world as it exists rather than the one you want to spin. Good luck! : Yeah. Now that's you've achieved maximal stupidity, you should probably run away. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#5
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Fred J. McCall ha scritto:
snip of nonsense ::Show me an Aegis that doesn't have VLS. again snip of nonsense Easy reply: what I call the "early Tico": CG-47 USS Ticonderoga CG-48 USS Yorktown CG-49 USS Vincennes (aka "robocruiser") CG-50 USS Valley Forge CG-51 USS Thomas S. Gates all five have two Mk26 twin launcher, and was stricken from Aug.30 2004 (USS Valley Forge) to dec.15 2005 (USS Thomas S. Gates) So instead of wasting time on wording, please stuck to the topic ![]() Best regards from Italy, Dott. Piergiorgio. |
#6
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Lack of content noted.
Poor Clarkie has been way too stupid for way to long. Take a 30 day 'time out' sonny. plonk Clark wrote: :Fred J. McCall wrote in : : : Clark wrote: : ::Fred J. McCall wrote in : :: :: Clark wrote: :: :::Fred J. McCall wrote in om: ::: ::: Clark wrote: ::: ::::On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: :::: :::: In message , Clark :::: writes ::::Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with ::::Aegis. :::: :::: GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). :::: SA-N-6 and SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system :::: whose designation I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. :::: Vertically Launched Sea Sparrow. :::: :::: There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users :::: like vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. :::: :::: ::::In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We ::::were typing about Standard missiles. :::: ::: ::: No, we weren't. You insisted that "AEGIS" was identically "VLS". ::: :::Read it again dimwit. I noted that Aegis and vls went together and :::they do. ::: :: :: Read it again, dumbass. You insisted that "AEGIS" and "VLS" meant the :: same thing. They don't. They also don't always go together. There :: have been AEGIS ships without VLS and VLS ships without AEGIS. :: ::: ::: ::: You're wrong. It's not. ::: :::Show me an Aegis that doesn't have VLS. ::: ::: That's not even true for Standard-capable launchers (Mk 41 VLS), ::: since the new LPDs will have Mk 41 launchers and no AEGIS system. ::: Some of the Spruance class (all those currently left in commission) ::: have Mk 41 VLS and no AEGIS system. ::: :::There are no Sprucans left in commission. Last one was decommissioned :::in 05. ::: :: :: So what? You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS. You then :: revised to there being no VLS firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice :: versa). :: ::And you tried to use Sprucans as an example of VLS w/o Aegis. So sorry ::that they don't exist. :: : : Except they do exist. You're just now trying to further revise your : original remark to achieve some form of correctness. So far: : : 1) You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS and vice versa, saying : that saying AEGIS when you meant VLS was the same statement. : : 2) You then revised to there being no VLS capable of firing Standard : without AEGIS (and vice versa). : : 3) You then revised to there being no *US* VLS capable of firing : Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). : : 4) You're now at there being no *US* VLS on ships currently in : commission capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). : : And you're still wrong. : :Nope. You've got it wrong boy. You try to twist the words but they just :don't work. Sorry 'bout that. : :: :: :: You're still wrong. There have been AEGIS ships without VLS and there :: have been VLS ships, firing both Standard and other missiles, without :: AEGIS. :: ::That wasn't what I stated. Go back and read it again. Get someone to ::help you understand. :: : : That was precisely what you stated and your ill-mannered behaviour at : this point doesn't erase it. Let us once again enumerate the : evolution of your claim: : : 1) You claimed there was no VLS without AEGIS and vice versa, saying : that saying AEGIS when you meant VLS was the same statement. : :Nope. Sure didn't. Go back and read it again. Get some help to understand :the big words. Try hard. : : 2) You then revised to there being no VLS capable of firing Standard : without AEGIS (and vice versa). : : 3) You then revised to there being no *US* VLS capable of firing : Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). : : 4) You're now at there being no *US* VLS on ships currently in : commission capable of firing Standard without AEGIS (and vice versa). : : And you're still wrong. : :Nope. You've got it wrong boy. You try to twist the words but they just :don't work. Sorry 'bout that. : :: :: ::: ::: Now, would you like to wriggle some more, or shall you just admit ::: you didn't know what you were talking about and move on? ::: :::Get real. You are the arrogant clueless one here. You really need a :::reality check...and some parental guidance. ::: :: :: Both my parents are dead, you stupid ****e. My mother just died a few :: weeks ago. :: :: And you're not only ignorant and stupid, you're apparently also :: ill-mannered and insensitive. :: ::And I'm insensitive because of....what? Now, if you had previously : ![]() : ![]() :: : : Uh, I don't know how to break it to you, dumbass, but that's precisely : what happened. Ask around. : :Nope. Didn't happen. You're making more false claims just like your :reference to Spruances. Sorry boy but you're busted on this one. Move on. : : As we've seen from your other expositions in ignorance, YOU not : knowing is not the same as "not known to all". : :: ::Your bull**** on the other hand is highly ::suspect because you've already made other *documented* false statements : ![]() :: : : And just what did I say that was false? Have you now moved to "the : Spruance class never existed" in your litany of idiocy? : :Have you forgotten that you used the Sprucans as a reference even though :they are long gone? : :: ::In other words, your mother didn't just pass and you are ::trying for the sympathy play. Good luck with that. :: : : Why would anyone want 'sympathy' from a gormless twit like you? And : do you seriously think anyone would bother to tell such a lie just to : 'win' a point? Unlikely. After all, most people aren't like you. : :: :: :: Sort of a Renaissance ****head. :: ::Well, the ****head part describes you perfectly. Try real hard to deal ::with the world as it exists rather than the one you want to spin. Good ::luck! :: : : Yeah. Now that's you've achieved maximal stupidity, you should : probably run away. : :Any you shouldn't even have posted in the first place parrot boy. It's time :for you to admit your errors Freddie. Give up now and perhaps you will be :forgiven. Otherwise, drown in you own bull****. HTH & HAND. : ![]() |
#7
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In message , Clark
writes On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: In message , Clark writes Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with Aegis. GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 and SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose designation I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. Vertically Launched Sea Sparrow. There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We were typing about Standard missiles. No, you weren't - unless you can show me a submarine firing Standards... Even letting that pass, turn your eyes to the Canadian Tribal-class destroyers, and their Mark 41 VLS systems, the Standard missiles therein, and their remarkable lack of AEGIS. Or the Australian Adelaides after their VLS modification, ditto. Or the German Sachsens.... Plenty of VLS systems launching Standard that still have no AEGIS involved on the ship. -- The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com |
#8
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Clark wrote:
:"Paul J. Adam" wrote in : : : In message , Clark : writes :On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: : In message , Clark : writes :Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with Aegis. : : GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 :and : SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose designation : I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. Vertically Launched Sea : Sparrow. : : There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like : vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. : : :In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We were :typing about Standard missiles. : : No, you weren't - unless you can show me a submarine firing Standards... : :What? All I have mentioned is Standards. I specifically excluded submarine :VLS. Are you having a bad day? : And why would you do that if you were only referring to Standards, which any fool knows are not fired from submarines? : : : Even letting that pass, turn your eyes to the Canadian Tribal-class : destroyers, and their Mark 41 VLS systems, the Standard missiles : therein, and their remarkable lack of AEGIS. Or the Australian Adelaides : after their VLS modification, ditto. Or the German Sachsens.... : : Plenty of VLS systems launching Standard that still have no AEGIS : involved on the ship. : : :And none of them US. Fine. There are other non-US Standard VLS systems :without Aegis. Are there are any US VLS systems without Aegis? : Yes. I already told you that. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#9
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Clark wrote:
:Fred J. McCall wrote in : : : Clark wrote: : ::"Paul J. Adam" wrote in : :: :: In message , Clark :: writes ::On 09 Feb 2008, you wrote in rec.aviation.military.naval: :: In message , Clark :: writes ::Show me a VLS system other than submarine that isn't used with Aegis. :: :: GWS26 Sea Wolf. PAAMS (Sylver launchers plus ASTER missiles). SA-N-6 and :: SA-N-9, for the Russians. At least one Chinese system whose designation :: I can't recall offhand. Barak, for Israeli kit. Vertically Launched Sea :: Sparrow. :: :: There may be more but that's a starting point. Plenty of users like :: vertical launch without ever getting near AEGIS. :: :: ::In other words, for the point of this exchange there aren't any. We were ::typing about Standard missiles. :: :: No, you weren't - unless you can show me a submarine firing Standards... :: ::What? All I have mentioned is Standards. I specifically excluded submarine ::VLS. Are you having a bad day? :: : : And why would you do that if you were only referring to Standards, : which any fool knows are not fired from submarines? : :Because I know that you are a fool. And yet you're the one saying all the egregiously stupid things. :: :: :: Even letting that pass, turn your eyes to the Canadian Tribal-class :: destroyers, and their Mark 41 VLS systems, the Standard missiles :: therein, and their remarkable lack of AEGIS. Or the Australian Adelaides :: after their VLS modification, ditto. Or the German Sachsens.... :: :: Plenty of VLS systems launching Standard that still have no AEGIS :: involved on the ship. :: :: ::And none of them US. Fine. There are other non-US Standard VLS systems ::without Aegis. Are there are any US VLS systems without Aegis? :: : : Yes. I already told you that. : : :No you didn't. You went off on tangents. Yes, I did. Your inability to read is YOUR problem. And your problem is obvious... -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#10
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Clark wrote in news:Xns9A43DA50D778Cch2uswestnet@
64.209.0.91: Are there are any US VLS systems without Aegis? Yes (maybe). From - http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...systems/mk-41- vls.htm: "The US Navy currently deploys MK 41 VLS - on AEGIS-equipped Ticonderoga- class cruisers and Spruance- and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers - and plans to use it on next generation of surface ships, the LDP17, DD-21 and CG-21." LPD-17 is commissioned and operating. From: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-17-design.htm Paraphrased - The class is designed for installation of the Mk-41 VLs, but none were installed, due to budget restructuring. There is capacity to back fit VLS in all 12 ships in the class. ********** Regarding AEGIS w/o VLS, I'd say there are none. From various Wikipedia articles: "The Aegis Weapons System comprises the SPY-1 Radar, MK 99 Fire Control System and ORTS, MK 41 VLS, the Command and Decision Suite, and SM-3 Standard Missile systems. Shipboard torpedo and naval gunnery systems are also integrated." "Originally, the first five ships of the United States' Aegis equipped Ticonderoga class cruisers were outfitted with Mark-26 twin-arm missile launchers; however, the ships with this system have been decommissioned and are no longer in service." "The current generation of American-produced VLS is known as the Mk 41 Guided Missile Launch System or Vertical Launch System. It is capable of carrying an extremely wide range of missiles, including the Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) naval self defense, short range SAM, SM-2 medium range/long range SAM/SSM, SM-3 anti-ballistic missile, VLA (RUM-139 vertical launch ASROC) anti-submarine missile with Mk-46 torpedo warhead, an advanced version of the earlier ASROC (RUR-5), and the Tomahawk cruise missile (long range strike)." "The RIM-67 SM-2ER was the Navy's replacement for RIM-2 Terrier missile. Ships carrying the SM-2 ER were often still called Terrier ships even after the SM-2ER. Because the RIM-67's first stage booster was very long, it could not fit into the Mk 41 VLS system, and thus could not be used with the Aegis weapon system. The SM-2 Block IV with the Mk 72 booster was developed to compensate for the lack of a long range SM for the Ticonderoga-class of Aegis cruisers." And more he http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/aegis.htm ********** Now that we have solved, will you little children stop whining and grow up? |
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