Why airplanes fly

This is why I always recommend that instructors encourage new student
pilots who use the simulator to NOT use it during the initial period of
dual instruction before solo. After that, the sim has uses that can be
beneficial in the flight training environment.

--
Dudley Henriques-

I think that's good advice because I had definitely picked up some
minor control input errors on landing from tweaking the joystick on
simulated landings. It wasn't hard to get rid of, but it was there and
it came from the sim. I tended to make small jerking pulls on the
control wheel (overcontrolling) when I should have held steady back
pressure.

That was usually just as the plane was settling down on the runway.

wrote:
This is why I always recommend that instructors encourage new student
pilots who use the simulator to NOT use it during the initial period of
dual instruction before solo. After that, the sim has uses that can be
beneficial in the flight training environment.

--
Dudley Henriques-

I think that's good advice because I had definitely picked up some
minor control input errors on landing from tweaking the joystick on
simulated landings. It wasn't hard to get rid of, but it was there and
it came from the sim. I tended to make small jerking pulls on the
control wheel (overcontrolling) when I should have held steady back
pressure.

That was usually just as the plane was settling down on the runway.

It's just the initial dual period before solo where I like the sim put
away for a new student. It avoids conflicts and saves valuable time on
the learning curve.
After the student learns in the actual airplane to think of control use
in terms of pressure rather than movement in a direction, and after
solo, I find no harm in going back to the sim for use as a training aid.


--
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ...

After the student learns in the actual airplane to think of control use in terms of pressure rather than movement in a
direction, and after solo, I find no harm in going back to the sim for use as a training aid.


--
Dudley Henriques


Speaking of pressure, is there some sort of yoke interface for PCs that includes force feedback? Something where the
controls stiffen with speed and out of trim conditions? Never seen anything like that on any I have messed with. There
was a really nice $100,000 set up at OSH with two projectors on a curved screen that was very realistic, but I don't
think it had force feed back either...

Blueskies wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

After the student learns in the actual airplane to think of control
use in terms of pressure rather than movement in a direction, and
after solo, I find no harm in going back to the sim for use as a
training aid.


--
Dudley Henriques


Speaking of pressure, is there some sort of yoke interface for PCs that
includes force feedback? Something where the controls stiffen with speed
and out of trim conditions? Never seen anything like that on any I have
messed with. There was a really nice $100,000 set up at OSH with two
projectors on a curved screen that was very realistic, but I don't think
it had force feed back either...


Yes there is. I've experimented with it and found it useless if the
objective sought is realistic aircraft control pressure feedback.
What it does do is create some "effects" for the user that are intended
to produce a more realistic experience, but in my opinion, the
technology falls way short of this goal.

In fact, my opinion of force feedback is so negative, I personally don't
use it.

--
Dudley Henriques

Yes there is. I've experimented with it and found it useless if the
objective sought is realistic aircraft control pressure feedback.
What it does do is create some "effects" for the user that are intended
to produce a more realistic experience, but in my opinion, the
technology falls way short of this goal.

In fact, my opinion of force feedback is so negative, I personally don't
use it.

--
Dudley Henriques-

That's my experience too. At first I really wanted force feedback.
However it's so inaccurate, and the motors make the thing all twitchy,
that only bad habits come of it.

Some company (not CH) makes joysticks and a flight yoke that don't use
potentiometers. They work better, apparently. Someone on the sim forum
could probably lead you to a controller that behaves well.

writes:

Some company (not CH) makes joysticks and a flight yoke that don't use
potentiometers. They work better, apparently. Someone on the sim forum
could probably lead you to a controller that behaves well.

Saitek uses Hall-effect sensors for the two main axes of the joystick in some
models (X52 and X52 Pro), but not usually for the other axes. It makes a
difference.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Some company (not CH) makes joysticks and a flight yoke that don't
use potentiometers. They work better, apparently. Someone on the sim
forum could probably lead you to a controller that behaves well.

Saitek uses Hall-effect sensors for the two main axes of the joystick
in some models (X52 and X52 Pro), but not usually for the other axes.
It makes a difference.


Good for them. They're wonderful.

Bertie

wrote:
Yes there is. I've experimented with it and found it useless if the
objective sought is realistic aircraft control pressure feedback.
What it does do is create some "effects" for the user that are intended
to produce a more realistic experience, but in my opinion, the
technology falls way short of this goal.

In fact, my opinion of force feedback is so negative, I personally don't
use it.

--
Dudley Henriques-

That's my experience too. At first I really wanted force feedback.
However it's so inaccurate, and the motors make the thing all twitchy,
that only bad habits come of it.

Some company (not CH) makes joysticks and a flight yoke that don't use
potentiometers. They work better, apparently. Someone on the sim forum
could probably lead you to a controller that behaves well.


For the work I do on the sim program both for Microsoft and developers I
use strictly CH Products. I've found them to be quite dependable and I
recommend them highly.
DH

--
Dudley Henriques

For the work I do on the sim program both for Microsoft and developers I
use strictly CH Products. I've found them to be quite dependable and I
recommend them highly.

I can second that recommendation.

In 18 months of daily use, our "Kiwi" (a full-sized flight simulator that
uses CH yoke and rudder pedals) has logged thousands of hours, with people
from every age group.

Given the abuse some of them have given the CH products, I'm frankly
surprised at how well they've held up. The plastic collar that surrounds
the metal shaft of the yoke broke after a woman exerted incredible force
trying to TWIST the yoke back to flare, rather than simply pulling back --
but a simple application of J-B Weld (the greatest stuff in the universe,
BTW) to reinforce the area has restored the yoke to full function.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Blueskies wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

After the student learns in the actual airplane to think of control
use in terms of pressure rather than movement in a direction, and
after solo, I find no harm in going back to the sim for use as a
training aid.


--
Dudley Henriques


Speaking of pressure, is there some sort of yoke interface for PCs
that includes force feedback? Something where the controls stiffen
with speed and out of trim conditions? Never seen anything like that
on any I have messed with. There was a really nice $100,000 set up at
OSH with two projectors on a curved screen that was very realistic,
but I don't think it had force feed back either...


Yes there is. I've experimented with it and found it useless if the
objective sought is realistic aircraft control pressure feedback.
What it does do is create some "effects" for the user that are
intended to produce a more realistic experience, but in my opinion,
the technology falls way short of this goal.

In fact, my opinion of force feedback is so negative, I personally
don't use it.


Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke. Even
sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see even the
most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in teaching
procedures.


Bertie